david_tulip

What did you think of the show - I was rather disappointed?

I'll think you'll find that yes the reports allegations are true; however it is a shame that in only covered the now-defunct companies (LTM & DTS) there are still quite a few others out there (and if not toxic from the top down - there are the individuals that worked for these organisations - where are they now!?!). I understand injunctions may have stopped other stories making the show! With regards to this scam the real thing was nothing to do with price i.e. a laptop that should of been x hundred costing y thousand - the schools took them on the understanding of them being "free" - no cost!!! Very naive - too good to be true always is that! They signed a document as far as they were concerned to say they "received the goods" not to pay for them - of course it was exactly that - LTM or DTS would pay for a while and then stop - having taken the lease capital upfront from the bank(s). I was approached by Panorama, Matthew Chapman (Producer) and met with them at the start of the summer and was looking forward to this show with excitement - I must say I've been left disappointed. Although the very least is that people will now be more aware! So if you need any advice - I'm happy to help - it'll be free! - Or will it, remember you get nothing for free, but if you need some help just get in touch. There are a lot of good companies and people out there, just take the advice I see previously, rely upon your IT and make a business decision based upon at least 3 quotations - remembering that cheapest isn't always best.

There are some terrible situations out there - many of them are so embarassing that they do not want to talk about them! I guy told me a story today of a similar time (late 80's I think) and a lease agreement which allegedly had a large amount of influence on a Bursar committing suicide somewhere in Essex! I was thinking that I would be happy to host or be a part of a workshop or to discuss stories - because it does help if we know there are others in the "same boat" - because as long as we are in denial we cannot address this - there isn't necessarily any easy way out - sometimes there are "mistakes" by these dodgy individuals / companies and we can find loopholes - but it does need a business-head to look at and take an objective view - which often is to DO NOTHING or rather do something AT THE RIGHT TIME - because a lot of the issues here are caused by exponential costs of "rolling up" leases. Do you think there would be mileage / interest in some face to face forums / workshops - war stories - explanations - advice on the tricks and scams?

Again PaperCut in schools is strong and priced well (opposed to say equitrac) obviously the NG version is free, but the MF version mentioned prices competitively and is very intuitive and functional - unlike some older or indeed (in my opinion) "lesser" products.

Hi guys - I am not stuck in a DTS or LTM lease - or indeed any of the "Phoenix from the Ashes" companies that have or will no doubt rise from these organisaions (as they always do) - but I'd be happy to share my knowledge with you. Nik your comment of the "high service/toner charges or ropes you in for several years" is somewhat vague - price is relative - what is a high service charge - I'd say (depending upon machine type, age, volumes used and probably more important(?) quality of service and level of SLA, whether dealer or direct manufacturer support) that education establishments would typically pay circa 4p for colour and .4p for mono - I guess with a 10% variation on that - I do hear of things much higher and sometimes much lower! In terms of being "roped in" I guess a finance agreement is typically between three and five years in length. There have of course been stories of Evergreen contracts (here on edugeek) from Danwood where the rental period doesn't start until you serve notice - so stories of leases that have people committed for much longer terms! I believe this agreement is a Managed Print Service - which is interesting as it is interchangeable with the terminology for the technology - these companies provide "Managed Print Services" so maybe a little sneaky in naming it as such. I have always told people that they are buying an agreement first and foremost (BUYER BEWARE: check and know what you are signing), secondly a service and finally a piece of kit! It shouldn't be about price - it is about value. There is an argument that says if someone will pay £50m for Torres then he's worth £50m - I guess it's all relative - or in other words maybe he is if someone will pay £35m for Andy Carroll - as that is what the Liverpool Chairman based his spending on - he said "I will sell Torres for £15m more than I have to pay for Andy Carroll - so the winner - Newcastle and Demba Ba!!! Sorry I digress to another love - footie. The love I refer to previously is trying to highlight "crooks" or unscrupulous individuals - it's a bit of a crusade of mine - I did set up a consultancy around it (here) but sadly it was not successful - it seemed people were happy to keep paying over the odds, or opting for things that were too good to be true, which Nik is what the chap was talking about here BBC News - Schools kit scam 'could cost schools millions'- see link to BBC 5 live investigation Happy to share my knowledge / opinions if required. All the best David Tulip

Although true to say it is better to pay £20k for a "techie" to save £700k - even a teacher could work that one out :-) sadly a techie is also often not aware and it is a "Business-Head" (you can find one in google using that term) that you need or similar who understands A. The technology, B. Business in general and C. Has knowledge of leasing arragments; because even if it's right for your school not to enter another one - there's a good chance they're in one now and furthermore there will be a service agreement sitting alongside - also with a liability! Sadly these parasites (not all in that industry - Print / Copy are in fairness) are encouraged to work in the education, charitable sectors, etc as they are typical easy prey - with know business-head internally or externally to guide them. It has to be said that there are also times when there is a bad guy on the inside - who do not care for anything other than themselves! I care because it's my tax, the money for my children's education and also my industry!

Pretty good pricing - is this from your existing provider? Are they on the framework agreement?