Bell Safedriver Scheme?

[crc-ict]

I don't get the argument that driving at 70 on the motorway is dangerous, i drive at 55-60 because that's how fast my van cruises at and i've never had an issue, also for tailgaters i completely ignore them, if you need to get past me go around, otherwise i don't care how close you get

 

I think I understand, although it's difficult to explain.

 

If you are driving at say 55-60 and being tailgated, it is more dangerous for you than doing 70 with following vehicles a good distance behind - there is a higher risk of a following driver misjudging and colliding with your rear-end. However, that danger is through no fault of your own, and you are not causing that danger by driving more slowly. I guess it depends on how you feel about being tailgated. Personally, I have experienced a rear-end collision, and as a consequence am uncomfortable with vehicles very close behind me, even though I know any resulting collision would be the other driver's fault. And I know that increasing your own speed is not the proper way to deal with it, but sometimes increasing the gap by speeding up just feels like the safest thing to do.

 

Back on topic, I'm not at all keen on the idea of my driving performance being judged by a 'blind' device analysing parameters without situational awareness. There are inevitably times when harsh braking, sharp cornering or (less so) fast acceleration have to occur because of the circumstances or the design of particular roads and a device that simply gives you a black mark because you exceeded an arbitrary parameter with no explanation for why seems unfair.

[Netwacky87]

When it comes down to Motorway driving, it all comes down to being sensible. Thats it. Its quite easy.

 

Left hand lane unless your overtaking (simple rule which many dont abide to) Many times and infact yesterday, a chap doing 60-65mpg in the overtaking lane (fast lane to some people) Nothing in front of him just tootlin' along oblivious to the people behind him. Same goes for middle lane hoggers! I can comfortably cruise at 70mph in the left hand lane and out to the middle or outter lane if needs be to overtake, then back to the left...Simple!

 

As for speed kills, Yes it does. If you hit something at 90mph instead of 70mph, there is a higher chance of you dieing because of the 20mph difference. Yes you can be responcible for your vehicle at 90mph but why take the chance of someone infront just slamming there brakes on, stick to the limit and keep your distance. Its easy!

 

/Rant Over

Edited February 13, 2013 by Netwacky87
Spelling

[shadowx]

As far speed kills, Yes it does. If you hit something at 90mph instead of 70mph, there is a higher chance of you dieing because of the 20mph difference. Yes you can be responcible for your vehicle at 90mph but why take the chance of someone infront just slamming there brakes on, stick to the limit and keep your distance. Its easy!

/Rant Over

 

This could go back and forward over and over again, however in your example consider WHY you as the driver doing 90 would hit the guy in front. Because YOU didn't keep YOUR distance. Nothing to do with speed, if the distance is correct for the speed and conditions then a situation like that wouldn't even come up.

 

The other scenario is a little kid running out in front of the car when you are doing 40 in a 30 zone in which case that speed (40) is inappropriate for the situation, you could even be doing a legal speed (30) outside a crowded school and kill someone. It's not the speed's fault it's the drivers fault for not considering the conditions and situation. At the correct speed most, if not all "accidents" would be avoided or mitigated to the point of no injury/damage. There is a time and a place for speed, an empty motorway in good conditions why not give it some and do 90 for a minute? It would make you a much safer driver in the long run than the person who never goes over 70 since you'll have that experience and you wont have the desire to keep doing it. I have done speeds that would get me a driving ban on the bike. Right or wrong, that's up to you. Will I do it again? No, why? Because I've done it and got the T-shirt! I now know what it feels like, how the bike moves and reacts, how *I* react so the next time I am doing 80 overtaking some twit in the middle lane I know how to handle the machine. Speed can get you into trouble just as easily as it can get you out of trouble!

 

I can see this thread devolving into something less constructive but let's see how it goes. As I said, *shrug* people have their own opinions.

Edited February 13, 2013 by shadowx

[Netwacky87]

Just been reading this and thought of this thread...Thousands using GPS jammers on UK roads pose risks, say experts - The Guardianin association with MSN News

[SYNACK]

I wonder what would happen if you put one in a paint shaker, they'd probably come to see you and figure out what happened.

[Sirbendy]

I'd be knackered if one was in my car. It's a boggo 2001 1.6 Astra auto, the old 8valver. Yet it goes like a scalded cat. I blame the drive by wire throtle - it's WAY too sensitive. I have a light foot, but the initial takeoff from rest even gently can easily invoke wheelspin and "push you back in the seat"ism. Cornering G force can also be a bit "whoa", as the gearbox has a liking for downshifts under constant throttle on, say, roundabouts.

 

I'm quite used to it (it makes me grin a fair bit, the chassis dynamics suit it perfectly), but when the garage up the road have it for MOT, every time they drop it back there's usally a comment of "by christ, this thing goes well, doesn't it..tuned, is it?"

 

No, it's not. When I show them it's the 8v as opposed to the 16v, and standard they tend to be rather surprised. Given I removed the 1.6 badging as well, they automatically assume I've dropped the 1.8 in it or similar, I think. It does like petrol though..

 

It's on the emergency map at the moment due to a lambda data issue, but I can't say I've noticed...which is almost worrying. I'm the 2nd owner after motability, so I can't see it being a tweaked setup at all..

[Tetrix53]

Hi all

 

Sorry to wake up an old thread but I have one of these boxes in my car. I have to be very careful what I do. 1.9 CDTI Astra, not easy to maintain what they consider a "safe speed".Especially when it doesn't feel like you're driving as fast as you are.

 

From what I've been told and from what I can gather, the box will pick up on the following:

 

Speeding: Obvious but will flag you at even 1mph over the limit. I've ben as careful as possible, but take care when "free rolling" downhill

Sharp breaking: some things are impossible to predict when driving, but when the time comes to hit that break, it will flag regardless of whether you are in the wrong or not.

Harsh Accelleration: Even accellerating quickly to 30 mph it will flag.

Harsh turning: not too clear on this one but the guy who installed it told me that it will pick up on turning corners or swerving too harshly

Times that you drive: If you drive between 11pm and 6am you are considered a risk, so this will be flagged also.

 

I don't think it picks up on whether you have your lights on in the dark, or anything like your door not being closed properly. but don't quote me on that.

Not sure if I have missed anyting out, but they are the main factors. If any of the above is nothing for you to worry about then yes, have it installed, save yourself a few hundred £££'s, build up 1 yr no claims (10 month policy optional) then shop around. otherwise if you have a lead foot and no patience, steer clear.

 

Hope this info helps

 

Carl

 

Hmm, where does this information originate from? I have one installed, and I don't even realise it's there. It tracks your speed, so say if you're tracked at being on a small street or area doing 50mph, it might bring your score down. But no way can it tell that you're going 1mph over the speed limit, it would have to have a program telling it what roads have what speed limits and I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. I've driven over the speed limit for the road I'm on and nothing has been said, so long as I don't go over 100mph, they don't bring your score down just for doing 41mph in a 40mph, that's ridiculous.

 

As for things like sharp braking and steering, isolated incidents i.e. a month or few weeks apart or more, don't count towards your score because that could be unforseen circumstance such as someone in front braking harshly/someone stepping out/a car coming out without looking. Your score only gets marked against when you brake harshly all the time, because this indicates that you tailgate or leave it too late to stop at lights, thereby increasing your risk of whacking someone's behind.

 

Accelerating harshly is an environmental thing, and you waste petrol when you rev past 2500rpm at low speeds (below 50mph). My score at the minute after driving with the box for a month is good to excellent, and my only downfall is that I drive at night (I work nights, so what can ya do?) but this isn't enough to lower my score as of yet.

 

Just take a look at your miles per gallon figure if your car lets you see that and see how good a driver you are. The higher your mpg, the more likely your score will be better for a black box because things like harsh braking, harsh accelerating etc are things that mpg is based on. I managed to get my mpg up from 36.5 to 47.5 and saved about £30 a month in petrol.

 

As for installation, it isn't fitted anywhere near the engine, it's fitted behind the dash in your electrical system. Bell don't change anything to your premiums unless you go over 100mph (this will invalidate your warranty), they can see you go to work in your car when you said you use it for social only and they can up your premiums if you quoted lesser mileage than you actually do in a year, but if your score is bad, they won't automatically up your premium UNLESS you renew. And you don't have to renew, either. If you don't want the box fitted, go somewhere else. It's designed to lower premiums for new and young drivers, so why would race car drivers and older or more experienced drivers benefit? Simple fact is, if you don't want it, don't get it. People who get it have their premium quoted as less as a BONUS for having it installed. So stop your whining.

 

As for when you decide you don't want it anymore, it can be disconnected from their end any time. You have to pay to take it out, but it doesn't do anything to your car once the box has been disconnected. And they CANNOT go back on their word. Even if they lied and didn't disconnect it, their is NO WAY they can use the information in any way or to use it against you in the future.

 

Some people might be "afraid" that this is a tracking system designed to keep tabs on you, but at least their being honest about it. It's the tracking systems that aren't honest you want to watch out for. Plus it's an option service, no-ones making you get one.

[synaesthesia]

Spot the Bell employee signing up after finding this attack on their product on google?

[pcstru]

Spot the Bell employee signing up after finding this attack on their product on google?

 

Perhaps. On the other hand, an accuracy of 1mph would be extraordinarily difficult to achieve in a reasonably priced sensor. You can't hook in to a car speedo (because it's not that accurate), nor would GPS give you +/- 0.5mph, except as an average over extremely long distance.

 

They are also spot on about fuel consumption. It is hugely affected by how you drive and is probably a good rule of thumb as to how such a box will rate you.

[CAM]

Since GPS systems can tell what road you are on and what the speed limit is to flash up a warning to the driver, it is more then reasonable to assume black boxes use the same technology. Maybe 1MPH is too sensitive (especially given the 10% leeway for inaccurate speedos) but they would certainly pick up 35 in a 30 zone.

[pcstru]

Since GPS systems can tell what road you are on and what the speed limit is to flash up a warning to the driver, it is more then reasonable to assume black boxes use the same technology. Maybe 1MPH is too sensitive (especially given the 10% leeway for inaccurate speedos) but they would certainly pick up 35 in a 30 zone.

 

35 in a 30, is starting to get into the realms of what is possible with public GPS on a good day - although expressed as an error band, you would need to count the bad days too. 1mph accuracy is not possible even on a good day. The 10% on a speedo is +10% rather than +/-10%. They can over read, they should never under read. That's a physical system which relies on contact between the vehicle and the ground - probably the best chance you have of designing a system which could approach 1mph accuracy.

[mossj88]

Apart from some of the information is just wrong...

 

it would have to have a program telling it what roads have what speed limits and I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen.

 

What's hard to beleive about that your TomTom/Garmins do it? I can tell you for sure it does.

 

As for things like sharp braking and steering, isolated incidents i.e. a month or few weeks apart or more, don't count towards your score because that could be unforseen circumstance such as someone in front braking harshly/someone stepping out/a car coming out without looking.

 

I was warned that anything will drop your score for that day, but your overall score is an average so you'll be okay.

 

Just take a look at your miles per gallon figure if your car lets you see that and see how good a driver you are. The higher your mpg, the more likely your score will be better for a black box because things like harsh braking, harsh accelerating etc are things that mpg is based on. I managed to get my mpg up from 36.5 to 47.5 and saved about £30 a month in petrol.

 

Accepted, it's upped my MPG as well (granted only from 16 to 19)

 

Bell don't change anything to your premiums unless you go over 100mph (this will invalidate your warranty) but if your score is bad, they won't automatically up your premium UNLESS you renew. And you don't have to renew, either.

 

Actually they do, first you get the original discount (YaY) then in six months time they review your driving habits and depending on if your in the upper 20% or lower 20% of drivers they will change your premium accordingly (discount or charge)

 

If you don't want the box fitted, go somewhere else. It's designed to lower premiums for new and young drivers, so why would race car drivers and older or more experienced drivers benefit? Simple fact is, if you don't want it, don't get it. People who get it have their premium quoted as less as a BONUS for having it installed. So stop your whining.

 

No one is whining, we are discussing it in an open way, weighing up the pros and cons of the tracker to see if it's worthwhile.

Edited April 4, 2013 by mossj88

[mossj88]

I'm not entirely sure if it is fully GPS based, my girlfriend told me the guys that fitted it played with parts of the car I wouldn't have expected them too (i.e they spent considerable time, putting the car in and out of gear, flicking lights on and off, etc).

 

If it was a black box thats just got all the sensors in it, I'd have expected them to wire it up to the battery/fuse box (not to self, check that the tracker is fused properly) and be on their way.

Edited April 4, 2013 by mossj88

[sted]

I'm not entirely sure if it is fully GPS based, my girlfriend told me the guys that fitted it played with parts of the car I wouldn't have expected them too (i.e they spent considerable time, putting the car in and out of gear, flicking lights on and off, etc).

 

If it was a black box thats just got all the sensors in it, I'd have expected them to wire it up to the battery/fuse box (not to self, check that the tracker is fused properly) and be on their way.

 

presumably its wired into the obd port and lots of information is available from that look at hand held diag units they can tell you boost pressure battery voltage speed rpm (and if you know the speed and rpm you know the gear). Look at something like garmin ecoroute hd and that's consumer tech Garmin ecoRoute HD review | PC Pro add a phone sim and gps to and obd device it can in theory report pretty much anything the ecu knows so there is no reason it couldn't send a text saying lights on/wipers on/radio on with factory fit radios it may even be able to text you the station/track info and volume level

[SYNACK]

Just take a look at your miles per gallon figure if your car lets you see that and see how good a driver you are. The higher your mpg, the more likely your score will be better for a black box because things like harsh braking, harsh accelerating etc are things that mpg is based on. I managed to get my mpg up from 36.5 to 47.5 and saved about £30 a month in petrol.

 

Ick, another econazi. How efficient you are does not make you a good or bad driver, especially not in every sence. How many drivers that think like that would be completely ownd by and unprepared for something unexpected. You also get the fun tradeoffs where it may be more economical to not accelerate sharply and get into a worse accident instead of taking action to limit the damage or maybe even avoid it.

[Tetrix53]

Spot the Bell employee signing up after finding this attack on their product on google?

 

Um, nope. I just know what I'm talking about because I recently got one installed from them. And they told me nothing would change on my premium until I renewed, so the six-month mark must be for a different policy. I really don't care for the feedback of Bell, I don't work for them, but I thought I'd give my two cents seeing as there is a lot a misinformation about the product in this thread. I thought people would appreciate the insight rather than conspiring against a product :/

 

What's hard to beleive about that your TomTom/Garmins do it? I can tell you for sure it does.

 

Yes, but we're not talking about TomTom's are we? They have a map system which tells them the speed limits for the road, the safety driver box has no such thing, and even if it did, it obviously doesn't impact your score seeing as I go over the speed limit plenty of times and my score is still 'excellent.'

 

Accepted, it's upped my MPG as well (granted only from 16 to 19)

 

19??? What are you driving, a coal train?

 

Ick, another econazi. How efficient you are does not make you a good or bad driver, especially not in every sence. How many drivers that think like that would be completely ownd by and unprepared for something unexpected. You also get the fun tradeoffs where it may be more economical to not accelerate sharply and get into a worse accident instead of taking action to limit the damage or maybe even avoid it.

 

Well actually I meant "good" in Bell and driving test terms, not anything else. I was merely commenting on the best way to save petrol and money, that's why I do it. If I was an "econazi" I wouldn't drive a car at all, but bike it everywhere. I care more about animals than I do the environment, so if I was going to do anything, using less harmful emissions for my car is pretty low on my list tbh. I just try to save money on stuff like petrol since it's so expensive in this country. Accelerating or braking sharply to avoid potentially harmful incidents doesn't count. It's the knobs on the road in their silly crap sports cars that rev past you at 80mph on a 40 road that has speed cameras on it. It doesn't bother me that their harming the environment doing this, they just look like a tit, and nobody thinks it looks cool.

[Tetrix53]

And FYI, I signed up to reply because I was looking at other stuff to do with Bell because they recently shafted me with my breakdown cover service, but it made me angry reading replies so I ended up here. Oh, the power of the internet ^_^

[mossj88]

Yes, but we're not talking about TomTom's are we? They have a map system which tells them the speed limits for the road, the safety driver box has no such thing, and even if it did, it obviously doesn't impact your score seeing as I go over the speed limit plenty of times and my score is still 'excellent.'

 

It's easy enough to do it wouldn't suprise me if they worked with a GPS supplier, but even if they didn't a mapping api and a knowledge of limits for certain road types would be enough (I could knock something up in an afternoon). Maybe you are just lucky and they have miss calculated the speed limits in your area.

 

I don't think they offer other policies with the tracker, may be worth phoning them to confirm what you have been told but I got an email last week confirming that they will review my score

 

Dear Policyholder

 

This email is to remind you that when you purchased the policy, you agreed to a ‘Six Month Review’ of your driving scores, where your premium would be adjusted if you were in the lowest performing quarter of Safe Driver customers.

 

This review will be performed in the next 30 days. ...etc etc

 

19??? What are you driving, a coal train?

 

A 3.0 petrol estate (so yes?)

[mossj88]

On a side note I just checked my weekly score and it appears to be jumping about even when I'm not driving the car.... Going to have to work out some dates and give Bell a ring.