unixman_again Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Gartner review says Windows 8 ?bad? for desktop users ? The Register Windows 8 Review – Part 1: A business decision In a nutshell, Gartner have said what the rest of the IT world has been saying, that is W8 is OK on touch screen devices but rubbish on the desktop. 1
Fazza Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 No surprise there then. They seem to be concentrating on the consumer market and forgetting about the business side of things.
Arthur Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Who paid Gartner for this research? Google? Apple? Given that enterprises will most likely be using Windows 7 until at least 2018 who cares what they think? Large businesses are never early adopters of anything. When is Gartner actually right? Why does the IT industry continue to listen to Gartner? http://i.imgur.com/67WGU.png Edited July 23, 2012 by Arthur 1
gshaw Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Arthur are you a Windows 8 evangelist or something as you seem very passionate about fighting its corner! The Desktop experience is all over the place, showed up again today when I opened up an SD card in desktop My Computer view but the default open action is in the Metro app... cue annoying Alt Tab moments to open each photo as it didn't pick up the other images as the classic Photo Viewer would
Michael Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Time will tell on the number of Windows 8 sales, but Microsoft keep hush about how many devices get downgraded. This happened a lot at first with newly purchased Windows 7 notebooks downgraded to Windows XP, but now as time goes on more companies and schools are rolling out Windows 7. I still think the 'wait for SP1' rule will always apply (even with Windows 8), but to be fair, Windows 7 SP1 is a very good OS. It is without a doubt Windows XP's real successor (and not Vista). I think also Microsoft need to accept that even with subscription type licensing, entitling companies and schools to use the latest software - it doesn't actually mean you have to or need to. Is there really going to be major improvements between Office 2010 and Office 2013? No probably not, so I suspect a lot of organisations will skip it until Office 2016 or 2017. From my testing, I think Windows 8 will really challenge the iPad, but I have to agree, I don't think it'll be a big hit on the desktop or notebook. Whatever the outcome, Microsoft can fine tune this with Windows 9 whenever that gets released. I am sure valuable lessons will be learnt
Arthur Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 are you a Windows 8 evangelist or something as you seem very passionate about fighting its corner! Not at all. Sure, there might be a few annoyances but you get these with every operating system. You either find workarounds or you adapt to the changes over time. C'est la vie! Other than the Metro UI and ribbon in File Explorer, it's essentially the same OS as Windows 7. There is certainly a lot to like in Windows 8 and the staff I have shown it to at school have all reacted positively to it so far. At home I generally upgrade to new operating systems on release (or shortly after) since there is always something I like or need. This applies equally to Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android etc. This week I am looking forward to Mountain Lion and will almost certainly buy it on day one. When Google releases Jelly Bean's successor, I will be installing it on my Nexus 7 too. The computers at school are slightly different since there are more of them and upgrades need to be planned, but it is inevitable that we will have Windows 8 PCs or tablets at some point in the not too distant future so we might as well get used to it sooner rather than later in order to be better prepared. Metro isn't going anywhere. The Desktop experience is all over the place, showed up again today when I opened up an SD card in desktop My Computer view but the default open action is in the Metro app... cue annoying Alt Tab moments to open each photo as it didn't pick up the other images as the classic Photo Viewer would Why don't you simply change the default image viewer to Windows Photo Viewer in the Control Panel? It took me less than 15 seconds and you only need to do it once. Gartner have said what the rest of the IT world has been saying By the rest, you mean some? http://i.imgur.com/nWhKK.png Windows 8: a benchmark for music production applications « The Cakewalk Blog Windows Server 2012: IT Pros Will Need WS-MAN Remoting Skills (And Not Just for PowerShell) « Redmond Mag Why the Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant « TechSpot Why Windows RT will be good for the enterprise! (it's about more than tablets) « Brian Madden
alttab Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Not at all. Sure, there might be a few annoyances but you get these with every operating system. You either find workarounds or you adapt to the changes over time. C'est la vie! Other than the Metro UI and ribbon in File Explorer, it's essentially the same OS as Windows 7. There is certainly a lot to like in Windows 8 and the staff I have shown it to at school have all reacted positively to it so far. At home I generally upgrade to new operating systems on release (or shortly after) since there is always something I like or need. This applies equally to Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android etc. This week I am looking forward to Mountain Lion and will almost certainly buy it on day one. When Google releases Jelly Bean's successor, I will be installing it on my Nexus 7 too. The computers at school are slightly different since there are more of them and upgrades need to be planned, but it is inevitable that we will have Windows 8 PCs or tablets at some point in the not too distant future so we might as well get used to it sooner rather than later in order to be better prepared. Metro isn't going anywhere. Why don't you simply change the default image viewer to Windows Photo Viewer in the Control Panel? It took me less than 15 seconds and you only need to do it once. By the rest, you mean some? http://i.imgur.com/nWhKK.png Windows 8: a benchmark for music production applications « The Cakewalk Blog Windows Server 2012: IT Pros Will Need WS-MAN Remoting Skills (And Not Just for PowerShell) « Redmond Mag Why the Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant « TechSpot Why Windows RT will be good for the enterprise! (it's about more than tablets) « Brian Madden to be fair, some of those articles you've linked to, sound like they may have the same fortune telling credentials as the gartner table re mobile device share from 2009. to me, schools in particular, will buy almost anything in bulk if it's pitched at the right price and appears as if it's attempting to solve a particular problem or fill a hole somewhere in IT provision, doesn't mean said technology necessarily solve's that particular problem astoundingly well, just that if it's a technology solution, if it's priced correctly, if there can be some educational or productivity benefits then they'll be bought. There won't be any shortage of devices being offered for sale with the latest version of windows 'embedded' - and i can't personally see a huge leap in innovation coming from apple given where they are today with the 'new' iPad. I suspect the iPad is in the same phase the iPod touch was where new generations were non earth shattering bumping up of hardware spec revisions for a few years. There's not the same panic that Windows 8 will get left behind in a struggle to catch up, it might struggle in being the bottom up success that the iPad has been forcing education and enterprise to adapt due to end user adoption. With microsoft you get the feeling it'll be the other way round, reliant on a top down introduction from IT decision makers to a scepticle end user base who are quite taken with their iPhones and iPads. Ironically though, the decisions makers probably aren't too fussed about Window 8 on the desktop, i imagine there will be a lot of downgrading to windows 7 for those who haven't yet rolled out win7. I can't see senior leadership turning round and demanding IT upgrades all office and teacher pc's to this weird tile thing that wouldn't have been so bad if there'd worked out the unintuitive aspects as far as use on a desktop pc. Especially there won't be the rush to upgrade once they realise that behind the tiles, the look and feel is windows 7 with pastels.
shenley Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 BBC News - Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe'
unixman_again Posted July 27, 2012 Author Posted July 27, 2012 The same story from The Register Gabe Newell: Windows 8 is a 'catastrophe' for PC biz I whole-heartedly agree with the 2nd readers comment for this article.
Theblacksheep Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Gabe is just annoyed that MS are going to eat into his Steam PC gaming monopoly. Most of the bitching so far with Windows8 is about the Start Menu, how many other GUI interactions can be done when using the Windows7 Start Menu? I think many are moaning about the change to user experience when in reality it doesn't actually make a great deal of difference. Personally I think a well setup Windows8 will be excellent on the desktop, whether it sells well is another matter, but there you go I said it.
Geoff Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Don't forget MS posted a loss for the first time ever. Microsoft posts first-ever quarterly loss ? The Register So MS will be under pressure from shareholders to perform and make a profit again. I wouldn't like to be working there atm!
CyberNerd Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I wouldn't like to be working there atm! Looking at how they treat their employees I wouldn't want to be working there ever Microsoft’s Downfall: Inside the Executive E-mails and Cannibalistic Culture That Felled a Tech Giant
unixman_again Posted July 27, 2012 Author Posted July 27, 2012 I thought most of the bitching about Windows 8 was the enforcement of UEFI. My own two gripes are the interface clearly aimed at finger swipers rather than keyboard users, and the extreme slowness. It's very resource hungry, even more so than Windows 7. I'm dreading it. My work box used to run XP and it was up from cold to being useable in 2:50; by useable I mean all the hourglasses have stopped (all services and programs in the auto start, have kicked off). Since the enforced upgrade to W7, I'm looking at 5:15 from cold, before it's useable. I guess I'm going to have to get the security people to switch it on for me when W8 comes along, otherwise I'll be waiting forever for the box to boot from cold.
SYNACK Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I thought most of the bitching about Windows 8 was the enforcement of UEFI. My own two gripes are the interface clearly aimed at finger swipers rather than keyboard users, and the extreme slowness. It's very resource hungry, even more so than Windows 7. I'm dreading it. My work box used to run XP and it was up from cold to being useable in 2:50; by useable I mean all the hourglasses have stopped (all services and programs in the auto start, have kicked off). Since the enforced upgrade to W7, I'm looking at 5:15 from cold, before it's useable. I guess I'm going to have to get the security people to switch it on for me when W8 comes along, otherwise I'll be waiting forever for the box to boot from cold. Weird, I found it way faster on lower power hardware than 7. I think they are wineing about UEFI, the microsoft marketplace being the only 'app store' for certain products and the MS sainted hardware for tablets stepping on other manufacturers. For certain bits of 8 though I can see their point, if they keep down this route they are effectivly leaving the PC market and entering the appliance market like Apple. Maybe next year will be the 'year of the linux desktop'.
Geoff Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 if they keep down this route they are effectivly leaving the PC market and entering the appliance market like Apple. Maybe next year will be the 'year of the linux desktop'. If only by default as no one else makes an OS for PCs anymore
alttab Posted July 28, 2012 Posted July 28, 2012 Don't forget MS posted a loss for the first time ever. Microsoft posts first-ever quarterly loss ? The Register So MS will be under pressure from shareholders to perform and make a profit again. I wouldn't like to be working there atm! most of the loss is attributable to a one-off charge. The rest of the article indicates some strong revenue numbers. Windows 8 is just an example of Microsoft adjusting. What would be worse if i was a shareholder or employee would be if Microsoft acted like some other companies of late who've seen Apple and Android take a big chunk out of their dominant position in a particular market....in other words be content to sit on your laurels until it's too late to adjust. It's not really a risk being so focused on being tablet friendly with their next product, because the PC OS market doesn't exactly have a competitor that can dislodge Microsoft from it's dominant position. And anyway, competitors would only be taking an increased share in a market that isn't growing anywhere near as fast as tablets.
CyberNerd Posted July 28, 2012 Posted July 28, 2012 the full Vanity Fair article "Microsoft's lost decade" How Microsoft Lost Its Mojo: Steve Ballmer and Corporate America Once upon a time, Microsoft dominated the tech industry; indeed, it was the wealthiest corporation in the world. But since 2000, as Apple, Google, and Facebook whizzed by, it has fallen flat in every arena it entered: e-books, music, search, social networking, etc., etc. Talking to former and current Microsoft executives, Kurt Eichenwald finds the fingers pointing at C.E.O. Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates’s successor, as the man who led them astray.
Arthur Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 BBC News - Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe' Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut. Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62). If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83! Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store?
SYNACK Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut. Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62). If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83! Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store? As if games aren't expencive enough, they are nearing $150 for a new release Xbox game here (some titles) and I'm sure they are on the way to $200. Its insane, two new games or a whole new Xbox 360. At least phones have not fallen to this insane pricing yet, I guess that is what Steam is morrning.
Geoff Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Surely this means Android is also a catastrophe? If Valve wants to sell Android games for smartphones and tablets from within their Steam app, they have to give Google a 30% cut before Valve can take their 30% cut. Using Shadowgun THD as an example. Madfinger Games currently sells the game for £3.75 in the Play Store which means Google takes £1.13 and the developer gets the remaining 70% (£2.62). If Shadowgun was sold through the Steam app, Google would still keep £1.13, but Valve would take £0.79 and the developer would only get £1.83! Why would any games developer want to add an additional middle-man (a.k.a Valve) into the equation instead of selling games directly through the Play Store? Once you have your own app store (Steam) on the android handset you don't have to give Google anything. So Valve is actually undercutting Google.
Arthur Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Once you have your own app store (Steam) on the android handset you don't have to give Google anything. I know there are apps for things like music, groceries, eBay etc. that do not use Google's in-app billing system to pay for items, but are there actually any app store apps that you can download directly through Google Play and pay for apps using a credit/debit card or PayPal? I have never come across any so far. Amazon's App Store doesn't really count because you have to tick the "Unknown sources" checkbox and side-load the APK.
CyberNerd Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 There are plenty of android app stores around, without using play. Heres a list: 15 Ways to install Android Apps Without the Android Market you might need to use a web browser to download them - but not sure why it "wouldn't count" as an alternative to play if you have to use an installer??
Arthur Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 There are plenty of android app stores around, without using Play. That's true, but don't you think most people would prefer to use the standard app store because it's less hassle compared to the alternatives? Why is Gabe complaining about something that may or may not hypothetically happen with Windows, but not OS X, Ubuntu or Android (which all allow you to install third-party apps)?
CyberNerd Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 That's true, but don't you think most people would prefer to use the standard app store because it's less hassle compared to the alternatives? People install other browsers. In the old days of IE6 that did hold true though. Why is Gabe complaining about something that may or may not hypothetically happen with Windows, but not OS X, Ubuntu or Android (which all allow you to install third-party apps)? what he said was: “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/
tmcd35 Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. An interesting POV. Personally I can't see "top-tier" OEMs living the PC space over Win8. HP might have done (recently) but if they had it wouldn't have had anything to do with Win8. Really can't see Acer, Lenovo, Dell or HP backing out of the market. In fact Win8 would probably allow them to target the iMac with touchscreen AiO's much easier than they have to date. IMHO - Win8 is a disaster in the Business sector (who'd stick with Win7 or XP any way), but is probably whats needed for Windows to compete in the Home Entertainment sector. Edited July 30, 2012 by tmcd35
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