Reassigning a HP DL360 G7 5620 as a Hyper-V Host

[MrWu]

Hi all;

 

Really grateful if you could advise me.

 

I have one of these:

 

HP ProLiant DL380 G7 E5620 1P 6GB-R SFF SAS 460W PS Server/TV (470065-479) specifications - HP Small & Medium Business products

 

at present with 24Gb of RAM, an extra processor - Xeon 5620, and 8 x 300GB in a RAID 10 array..underutilised at the moment running 4 VMs.

 

I'm hoping to build a Hyper-V cluster by buying another 2 of these DL 380 G7s and a SAN, the aim is to build the following for summer:

 

1) All 3 will have 2 x 5620 Xeons, 96Gb RAM and 2 x 72GB 15k SAS running Hyper-V OS, plus maybe a 10Gbe Ethernet card for Host to network communications

 

2) Linked to SAN (maybe a HP P2000 G3 - iSCSI for lower cost vs FC and 10Gbe now and we at about 25mb /sec..bugger all !)

 

3) I'm still not 100 percent comfy with running everything on such a setup (ideally I will need another SAN to replicate, etc etc) but I hope to move say SIMS, finance software, WSUS, Print server, intranet server,Impero, Sharepoint, Apps server, Terminal server to this cluster, with DPM covering all the backups (which DPM is doing very well now)

 

Question I have is:

 

1) Does having a big write back cache for your controller help? The DL 360 G7 comes with P410i with 256mb cache. I have herad from a VMware consultant that ideally have a 512 Battery backed cache for max performance..would Hyper-V apply too?

 

2) considering the low IOPS of my network, would it be ok to use the iSCSI for storage traffic and 10Gbe for host to network traffic (I have netgear cores with 10Gbe interfaces - figured I would normally assign one physical NIC per VM, having 10Gbe might consulidate cabling a bit.

 

3) Also would 2 x HP V1810-24g as storage switches switches for the Hyper-V cluster be ok? Or would one want something beefier?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks all.

Edited June 16, 2012 by MrWu

[TheScarfedOne]

This all looks fine to me, and not dis-similar to what I set up last year. Some bits that may help you...

 

1. Microsoft Schools Blog - some posts from me on there, and also there is an e-book from one of our friends at another school on getting HyperV running in Clustered form

2. Blogs on here - again, some from me - and there are a few other members too

 

If you need anything, feel free to PM me or I'll now be keeping an eye on this thread

[m25man]

We have been running similar spec clusters at several sites for over 3 years with no problems.

We also debated the fully redundant solution with dual controllered dual SANs with dual switches but decided that this was an Un-justifiable expense that could be negated through good backups, snapshots and a realistic DR plan and recovery windows.

Obviously having all of your eggs in one basket is a major worry but enterprise SANs cost enterprise money and how many schools have that kind of cash to splash around? What we have ia a manageable compromise that has saved £0000s over the years.

 

We have used the low cost ReadyNas 3200/4200 products with 10GBe connectivity to a GSM7328v2 using DAC cables and it all works really well.

However, we will be looking at the new ReadyData 5200s as an option this year as the pricing is quite disruptive with all of the software included especially block level replication over WAN which might bring the idea of fully replicated SANs into the lower budget ranges a possibility.

[MrWu]

This all looks fine to me, and not dis-similar to what I set up last year. Some bits that may help you...

 

1. Microsoft Schools Blog - some posts from me on there, and also there is an e-book from one of our friends at another school on getting HyperV running in Clustered form

2. Blogs on here - again, some from me - and there are a few other members too

 

If you need anything, feel free to PM me or I'll now be keeping an eye on this thread

 

Thank you TheScarfedOne

 

Will definitely read through the blogs, and thanks for the offer of help, I am hoping to buy the HP P2000 10Gbe SAN (they are on 50% cashback offer till end of June)

Haven't played with those, so wouldn't mind some advice when you are free.

 

@m25man

 

Thanks again. That is a good idea. Was going for a cheaper iSCSI SAN but your method is a bit more future proof, and it turns out I can stretch a little to maybe go 10Gbe for the whole thing :

 

Looking at 2 of these Netgear GS752TXS(they have 4 built in 10Gbe ports) :

GS752TXS

 

A rough design:

 

 

So hope this make sense. I get to have 10Gbe of storage traffic and 10Gbe for VM network traffic (and have dual 10Gbe in the future if I have switches with more 10Gbe ports) a bit of redundancy now having 2 switches (I'm hoping Hyper-V R3 will let me replicate say to a cheap NAS in the future)

 

Hope the Netgears play nice with the HP kit (SFP cables, programming the switches to the P2000 etc)

Edited June 17, 2012 by MrWu

[glennda]

The Servers themselves look good - just a couple of things

I would go with some beefier ISCSI switches then the 1810's personally. the 1810's are just webmanageable and I don't think they support jumbo-frames which you will want for the ISCSI traffic. Something like a couple of 2910s.

 

When it comes to SAN's the MSA2000 range is nice but they are just Dot Hill san's rebadged so would be cheaper to buy dot hill and also the dot hill's support larger drives (HP 2000 max disk drive is 450gb i think). I've done some work with the couple of equallogics recently which if you are thinking of down the line replicating san's then Equallogic's would be my vote. the EqualLogic also supports both 10Gbe and 1Gbe.

 

Or if you are looking at backing up replication only then look at Veeam for Hyper-V you could backup backup jobs every hour to a nas device with large drives - or even to a server off-site (i have this setup for multiple clients to a datacenter off site).

 

EDIT: a quote for an EqualLogic will seem expensive but they only sell them pre-populated with drives. The PS6110X comes with 7.2 or 14.4 or 21.6 tb. a 7.2tb one is roughly 15k. I unboxed one friday and they are reallllllllly shiny .

 

Also with the Veeam replication you can start an entire VM within moments if one horribly dies - i know this is the case with the VMware but not 100% about Hyper-V

Edited June 17, 2012 by glennda

[MrWu]

Cheers glenda, great stuff!

 

I am now looking at using netgear GS752TX and run the storage traffic at 10Gbe also (see the second of my post) hopefully a bit more future proof.

 

PS hope you are enjoying your new job ! :-)

[glennda]

Cheers glenda, great stuff!

 

I am now looking at using netgear GS752TX and run the storage traffic at 10Gbe also (see the second of my post) hopefully a bit more future proof.

 

PS hope you are enjoying your new job ! :-)

 

Yes job is going well! lots of new toys to play with!! I didn't see the second post as spent too long writing mine! The 2910's have 4 10GBE ports as well. Personally I don't like netgear stuff as it always causes me problems! But if your happy with it.

 

If you do buy an MSA2000 make sure you update the firmware's to the latest - there was a major security issue with one of the releases i think

[MrWu]

Have to look your company up sometime!

 

Did have a vendor selling ex lease 2910ai with 10gb modules.

 

We've had a few Netgear GS724TPS edge on test..in which case this will probably give you a henia lol! We have bought cores with a combo of GSM7328s and GSM7328FS and GS724TP. Did love HP switches but the core and edge solution cost 2x as much. We had to spend money revamping all fibre so budget was tight, it is a risk though and hoping having all same vendor will make the VLAN compatibilty and other programming easier.

 

They (netgear) do have sluggish web management and noisey fans...But they have so far touch wood been ok.

[m25man]

You may want to check this out... If using Netgear stacking.

[glennda]

Have to look your company up sometime!

 

Did have a vendor selling ex lease 2910ai with 10gb modules.

 

We've had a few Netgear GS724TPS edge on test..in which case this will probably give you a henia lol! We have bought cores with a combo of GSM7328s and GSM7328FS and GS724TP. Did love HP switches but the core and edge solution cost 2x as much. We had to spend money revamping all fibre so budget was tight, it is a risk though and hoping having all same vendor will make the VLAN compatibilty and other programming easier.

 

They (netgear) do have sluggish web management and noisey fans...But they have so far touch wood been ok.

 

Thing is with HP is yes it can cost a touch (can also be cheaper getting from europe etc) but its top notch stuff and with lifetime warranty you are laughing - if it dies you ring HP and they replace it! HP's web management can be a bit sluggish (as with anything in java) but most stuff to be honest i do from the cli just because once you have a list of commands you can just paste the lot straight in and it does it one by one! and the CLI is a lot more powerful then the web interface!

 

as what @m25man says netgears can be a pita with anything.

[MrWu]

Ok

 

Having look at 10Gbe with redundant paths etc, and pricing of a 2910 with enough 10gbe as storge traffic+resilience I'm starting to think maybe using a couple of DLs with local storage is cheaper and simpler lol.

 

Also it approches almost to the price of using Fibre Channel, had looked at this one with interest:

 

HP AK241A StorageWorks 8Gb Simple SAN Connection Kit | ServersPlus

 

With combination of a FC/iSCSI P2000 SAN

 

HP AW568A StorageWorks P2000 G3 MSA FC/iSCSI Dual Combo Controller SFF Array | ServersPlus

 

Sorry a silly question, but could this setup use Fibre SAN switch as the primary, and failover to iSCSI if the fibre switch fails?

[MrWu]

Ok ta

 

Having look at 10Gbe with redundant paths etc, and pricing of a 2910 with enough 10gbe as storge traffic+resilience I'm starting to think maybe using a couple of DLs with local storage is cheaper and simpler lol.

 

Also it approches almost to the price of using Fibre Channel, had looked at this one with interest:

 

HP AK241A StorageWorks 8Gb Simple SAN Connection Kit | ServersPlus

 

With combination of a FC/iSCSI P2000 SAN

 

HP AW568A StorageWorks P2000 G3 MSA FC/iSCSI Dual Combo Controller SFF Array | ServersPlus

 

Sorry a silly question, but could this setup use Fibre SAN switch as the primary, and failover to iSCSI if the fibre switch fails?

[glennda]

I've not done San with FC - Iscsi failover - i guess it depends on the host and if it can use it for multipath.

 

I've used one of those FC kits and the beauty of it is - they "just work"

 

EDIT: if you are starting to worry about cost have you considered Open E as a Software SAN? Get a DL180 with Large SAS drives Multiple 1GB network cards and run it that way? I've got a couple of clients using this and works well.

Edited June 18, 2012 by glennda

[MrWu]

That's sounds good. Did you use 2 of those FC kits in a failover config?...In any case HP stuff of that calibre should be quite reliable..i do like the look of them, all cables and cards included as well. :-). ..by the time i added the NIC cards, cables, switches needed for the 10gbe it was more than FC solution suprisingly.

 

I've got a horrible feeling in the documents For P2000 SAN i read that you can't present the same LUN to the iSCSI and FC protocol, in which case failover to iSCSI from FC does not sound hopeful...would have been a nice cost effective feature...

Edited June 18, 2012 by MrWu

[alttab]

I've got a horrible feeling in the documents For P2000 SAN i read that you can't present the same LUN to the iSCSI and FC protocol, in which case failover to iSCSI from FC does not sound hopeful...would have been a nice cost effective feature...

 

yep, i'd be very surprised if you could present the same lun over iscsi and fc. normally it's a case of multi protocol arrays giving you the option of different connectivity protocol for different LUNs.

 

in theory, if you could get an array with enough host side ports (minimum 4 FC or iscsi per controller) you wouldn't need to have a switch in between. Just direct connectivity between your hba's/NIC's and your 2 or 3 servers.

 

the other alternative if you don't want the cost of fabric switches or 10gbe switches, is to go the internal storage route and use something like the HP VSA to do network RAID mirroring. Whether this would work out cheaper i'm not so sure because you'd have to budget for losing capacity and paying for the VSA licenses...also i'm not sure how it would work with 3 hosts. A 2 host setup sounds straightforward enough, stuff each one full of disks and let the VSA software take care of redundancy

[glennda]

That's sounds good. Did you use 2 of those FC kits in a failover config?...In any case HP stuff of that calibre should be quite reliable..i do like the look of them, all cables and cards included as well. :-). ..by the time i added the NIC cards, cables, switches needed for the 10gbe it was more than FC solution suprisingly.

 

I've got a horrible feeling in the documents For P2000 SAN i read that you can't present the same LUN to the iSCSI and FC protocol, in which case failover to iSCSI from FC does not sound hopeful...would have been a nice cost effective feature...

 

Not to start with - but in the end yes purchased a second FC switch. One thing to note tho with those switches is that although you have 20 ports (or 16 can't remember) that you are actually only licensed for 8 and to use any more its an additional 1500 quid i think.

 

If you looked at an OPEN-E server you could suffice with 1GB links and just load balance 8 nics