Moving from Vmware to Hyper-v?

[PotNoodleTech]

For the last few years been running our VMWare system based on several hosts each with the free VMWare ESXi4.1. No VSPhere or anything, the totally free version. (before anyone laughs, IMHO an excellent way for a school to reap 90% of the benefits of VMWare virtualisation at 0% the cost!!)

 

Looking at licencing it up on VmWare ESXi5 with the essentials licence (as the free version of 5 is totally castrated i.e 8GB ram limit etc) so can do more advanced things and also make VM Image backups much easier / automated maybe using something like Veem.

 

Before I take the plunge also got a beady eye on Hyper-V. We get all MS licences cheap as chips through our LEA so could be a much more cost effective route than VMWare.

 

From what I can see (and read) HyperV still seems to be a year or two behind vmware in terms of overall smoothness/polishedness / ease of use / features etc? BUT I have not yet set up a HyperV server to try so could be talking out my rear.

 

What do you guys and gals think. Anyone actually done the move?

 

Cheers

Edited March 8, 2012 by PotNoodleTech

[m25man]

We have been on Hyper-v for those reasons from the outset it does everything we need with ease but check out the features of HV3 as these will close the gap significantly.

[Domino]

There's no memory overcommit in hyper-v : so if you use that in ESX you might find a need for more RAM in Hyper-v

[glennda]

Linux KVM/Red Hat Enterprise Virtulisation - in terms to performance kicks Hyper-V's backside

[FN-GM]

The Ram limit is for virtual machines rather than the host isnt it?

[Arthur]

as the free version of 5 is totally castrated i.e 8GB RAM limit

VMware increased the limit to 32GB after a massive backlash from customers. By comparison, Hyper-V hosts have a limit of 1TB.

 

make VM Image backups much easier / automated maybe using something like Veeam.

Veeam Backup & Replication is also available for Hyper-V. Hyper-V Backup from Altaro looks quite good too.

 

From what I can see (and read) Hyper-V still seems to be a year or two behind VMware in terms of overall smoothness/polishedness /ease of use/features etc.

As m25man mentioned, Hyper-V R3 essentially closes that gap. It even has quite a few features ESXi 5 doesn't. For a school environment, I can't see any reason to go with VMware.

[Arthur]

The RAM limit is for virtual machines rather than the host isnt it?

vSphere Hypervisor is limited to a maximum of 32GB of (physical) RAM. Previously, there was a 8GB vRAM limit.

 

While cores are not limited in vSphere 5 licensing the amount of RAM you provision to virtual machines, called vRAM, is limited. This is important to understand. You do NOT license the total physical RAM (called pRAM) in the cluster. You license the amount of RAM assigned to active virtual machines. If a VM is powered off it doesn’t count toward licensing. The vRAM included in the licenses is pooled across your vCenter instance. If you have 3 clusters managed by a vCenter instance then you can pool all of that and use it where needed, not just on the host or in the cluster where the socket license resides. That’s also very important to understand. If your DR site is managed by the same vCenter then you can use that DR vRAM licensing in your pool. (Source)

 

How much vRAM does a VMware vSphere Hypervisor license provide?

vSphere Hypervisor license provides a vRAM entitlement of 32GB per server, regardless of the number of physical processors. vSphere Hypervisor can be used on servers with maximum physical RAM capacity of 32GB. (Source)

[CyberNerd]

The advantage of VMWare is that the upgrade from standard is as simple as adding a license key. A migration pathway couldn't be simpler.

Essentials is a pretty good mix if you will only ever need 3 servers.

 

If your changing the infrastructure to something else then, as mentioned earlier, KVM really hot contender especially when compared to hyper-v. Backup is as cheap and simple as a snapshot and copy. You'd not need to worry about puny 1TB memory limits, RHEL6 is limited to 64TB and 4096 CPU's per host with an unlimited number of hosts. It would be much more scalable than Hyper-v or VMWare essentials if you ever decided to go down the VDI route.

[Arthur]

Backup is as cheap and simple as a snapshot and copy.

What would you normally use to backup 2008 R2 guests running Exchange and/or MS SQL when using KVM as the hypervisor?

[CyberNerd]

What would you normally use to backup 2008 R2 guests running Exchange and/or MS SQL when using KVM as the hypervisor?

 

I was referring to backing up the VMImage, I don't see that it really matters what the hypervisor is. Use what you like to backup data if you don't want to keep it on an image.

Edited March 8, 2012 by CyberNerd

[FN-GM]

Backup is as cheap and simple as a snapshot and copy.

 

Its not quite as simple as that. This method is no good for a DC, Exchange, SQL, File Servers

[CyberNerd]

Its not quite as simple as that. This method is no good for a DC, Exchange, SQL, File Servers

 

backing up a snapshot of a host doesn't preclude you from backing up the data.

[glennda]

What would you normally use to backup 2008 R2 guests running Exchange and/or MS SQL when using KVM as the hypervisor?

 

Personally I use BackupPC for Data shares and Built in windows server back to a share which backup pc then copies. backupPC is very effecient in its data storage capablities.

 

I'm currently evaluating backup software to use for the Exchange boxes and DC's. For Sims sql server a script which dumps the database using DB attach and then BackupPC takes a copy.

[Arthur]

The reason I asked was because I had a very quick look at RHEV on the RedHat website and on Google, but couldn't find anything relating to backing up Windows guests and/or Exchange & SQL. Obviously you could use something like BackupExec along with all of the relevant agents (expensive!!!), but I was just wondering if there was a better alternative (open source or not) when using KVM for the hypervisor?

 

Probably a stupid question.

[CyberNerd]

The reason I asked was because I had a very quick look at RHEV on the RedHat website and on Google, but couldn't find anything relating to backing up Windows guests and/or Exchange & SQL. Obviously you could use something like BackupExec along with all of the relevant agents (expensive!!!), but I was just wondering if there was a better alternative (open source or not) when using KVM for the hypervisor?

 

I might be missing the point - does hyper-v have an inbuilt mechanism for backing up SQL/Exchange/AD which is independent of windows server?

As far as I could tell its the same for all hypervisors. Use a 3rd party solution - which we had in place before we virtualised.

[Arthur]

does hyper-v have an inbuilt mechanism for backing up SQL/Exchange/AD which is independent of Windows server?

The VSS writer included with Hyper-V enables you to backup guests from the host (parent partition) without installing an agent in each VM. I think the ability to do granular restores of files/mailboxes/DBs etc. depends on the backup application used however.

[PotNoodleTech]

Thanks for the info people - very good posts keep em coming!

 

I think if I am going to spend the time evaluating a new system I will wait for HV3 and then see what that's like.

 

In the mean time I think I will set up an ESXi5 box to see how that fares particularly now the RAM limit on the free version has been lifted from 8GB (useless) to 32GB (much more useful)

 

Cheers!!!

[alexp]

I might be missing the point - does hyper-v have an inbuilt mechanism for backing up SQL/Exchange/AD which is independent of windows server?

As far as I could tell its the same for all hypervisors. Use a 3rd party solution - which we had in place before we virtualised.

 

Hi,

 

An open source software for Hyper-V VSS backups has been released: hypervbackup.codeplex.com

It's very easy to use and supports CSV clusters too.

 

Alessandro Pilotti

MVP ASP.Net / IIS

[jamesfed]

Take a serious look at Hyper-V and don't just go to your LEA for Server 2k8R2 lics.

 

Hyper-V has 'near' live migration (drop in network connection but only for a fraction of a second), dynamic memory allocation and as we have all said is dirt cheap compared to VMWare (especially on small scale networks where you dont need 100s of GB of RAM).

 

Server 8 is also on the way with memory de duplication (one of the strongest features of VMWare at the moment) which if you get software assurance you will have the ability to upgrade to the moment it comes out.

 

Keep in mind that the enterprise lic will let you run 4 Server 2008 R2 VMs on the same hardware without any additional licensing and that the datacentre lic will let you run an unlimited number of VMs.

[jamesfed]

Backup is easy enough as well if you use System Centre Data Protection manager (does local/and tape backup) which again is dirt cheap.

[CyberNerd]

Hyper-V has 'near' live migration (drop in network connection but only for a fraction of a second), dynamic memory allocation and as we have all said is dirt cheap compared to VMWare (especially on small scale networks where you dont need 100s of GB of RAM).

 

Server 8 is also on the way with memory de duplication (one of the strongest features of VMWare at the moment) which if you get software assurance you will have the ability to upgrade to the moment it comes out.

 

 

KVM already has memory de-duplication, and live migration. did I mention it is free? and faster than hyper-v ? or am I just banging my head against a wall of MS shrills?

[SYNACK]

KVM already has memory de-duplication, and live migration. did I mention it is free? and faster than hyper-v ? or am I just banging my head against a wall of MS shrills?

 

I'll chime in here, Hyper-V is epic easy and has memory overcommit etc., migration and all sorts so it is a fully valid solution but it can also be a total horror show if you have the wrong hardware/patch level. R2 is a bad joke on the latest line of intel cpus and has all sorts of issues you need to manually patch around.

 

It is fantasticly simple and easy when it works but if you end up in a hole you are going to be ducking bombs for the duration. For the right hardware and schenario it is perfect for an MS shop as you already have the knowhow you'll need. Its just the edge cases that will have you crying into your bourbon at the end of the day. Also if your dealling with any *nix VMs you are probably after a different solution.

 

I am a MS fan but Hyper-V still has some holes and if you are unlucky enough to be effected by them it might be time to find a religion or pick a different solution.

 

Edit: Server 8 also requires special CPU memory managment extentions XMM or something that are only avalible on the latest CPUs so anything more than 2 years old will have you stuck on the previous version anyway.

Edited March 9, 2012 by SYNACK

[jamesfed]

KVM already has memory de-duplication, and live migration. did I mention it is free? and faster than hyper-v ? or am I just banging my head against a wall of MS shrills?

 

Not to get into a constant to and fro but as I see it at the moment there are a few kind of educational IT guys out there-

• RM CC3/4/whatever guys who let RM do all the work

• RM CC3/4/whatever guys who want to get free and go vanilla

• Windows Server guys who know Microsoft stuff inside and out and like a unified look and feel of their management tools and has no interest/time/bother in exploring other options because what they use works great

• Linux guys who know Linux inside and out who think that everyone else should use it even if they have no experience/inclination to learn it

Guess which one I fit in as………………

[SYNACK]

• Windows Server guys who know Microsoft stuff inside and out and like a unified look and feel of their management tools and has no interest/time/bother in exploring other options because what they use works great

 

Pick me, pick me. I still use Hyper-V but on one particular platform I firmly beleive that it was fueled by my tears of rage and frustration. Seems to work now though, just took a bunch of extra effort in that one case. Never buy Acer... EVER!!!

[jamesfed]

Pick me, pick me. I still use Hyper-V but on one particular platform I firmly beleive that it was fueled by my tears of rage and frustration. Seems to work now though, just took a bunch of extra effort in that one case. Never buy Acer... EVER!!!

 

HP and AMD everytime None of this Intel rubbish with us!