ihaveaproblem Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Hi, I want to get a small form factor computer to install server 2008 on and work towards somce microsoft certifications. Currently i've been using virtual machines, however i only have a laptop and it struggles a bit if i try to run to much... I was looking at something like this eMachine ER1401 Desktop - Desktops | Ebuyer.com Has anyone used these before? It seems ideal for the job and should be fine for a test environment to learn. I dont want to spend a great deal. Maybe £250 max. Can anyone recommend any others that would be up to the job?
SYNACK Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) If your laptop struggles then the Neo CPU in this will probably be worse, it does have VT extentions but at only 1.3GHz running more than one instance of Server 2008 is going to be an adventure in patience. It should probably be alright with just a single instance running as it is more powerful than an Atom by a reasonable margin and an Atom runs 7 quite well. I would be dubious about putting other server products on it as well for learning on though. Edited May 13, 2011 by SYNACK 1
sidewinder Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 HP Microserver would be perfect for you, cashback offer seems to have been extended yet again, so £130 (make it £170 if you want to chuck 4GB RAM in it) after cashback for a box that is great for Hyper-V/VMware HP ProLiant MicroServer Athlon II Neo N36L 1.3GHz 1GB.. | Ebuyer.com 2
ihaveaproblem Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 Thanks both. My plan was to only run 1 instance of Server 2008 as the Main OS ( No VM's ) because i dont expect these systems to be able manage that. I just noticed these HP Microservers as well and they look very tempting with the cash back offer. I have a few questions if either of you are able to help 1) I would need use to use a wireless NIC. I cant see why there would be any problems installing a pci express nic to do this? 2) Can the CPU be upgraded in these easily like any other "standard size" computer? It might be something i look into in the future if i plan to run VM's because the 1.3ghz cpu will struggle i think. 3) Where is the deal of £170 cashback if i upgrade to 4gb ram?I cant find that offer thanks
SYNACK Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 1: should work as long as it has signed Windows 7 drivers avalible 2: I don't think so, the stuff I read showed it as BGA (ball grid array) meaning soldered to the motherboard.
sidewinder Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I have a few questions if either of you are able to help 1) I would need use to use a wireless NIC. I cant see why there would be any problems installing a pci express nic to do this? 2) Can the CPU be upgraded in these easily like any other "standard size" computer? It might be something i look into in the future if i plan to run VM's because the 1.3ghz cpu will struggle i think. 3) Where is the deal of £170 cashback if i upgrade to 4gb ram?I cant find that offer thanks 1) Aside from having drivers available, as long as it is half height it should be fine 2) Same as Synack, I dont think so. However I'm running 1 server 2008R2, 2x 2003 and a smoothwall VM on there and it doesnt feel sluggish (granted they arnt doing much yet) 3) There isnt one. I worded it badly. I meant that after cashback the box itself is about £130. 4GB of RAM is about £40 (not ECC though so you have to remove the 1GB that comes with it) so £170 total
Arthur Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) 4GB of RAM is about £40 (not ECC though so you have to remove the 1GB that comes with it) 4GB of ECC RAM is only ~£44. I would get two of these for a total of 8GB, since 4GB RAM is a bit limiting. Edit. Non-ECC RAM is even cheaper still (£58.84 inc. VAT for 8GB!!!). Edited May 13, 2011 by Arthur 2
ihaveaproblem Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 Ok I'm fairly sure i will get the HP Micro Do I really need ECC ram for a test environment? I was thinking of getting 2x4gb DDR3 RAM Non ECC and saving a few £.. For a wireless NIC would something like this be ok? I cant really see on NIC's where it says low profile. ASUS PCE-N13 802.11b/g/n Wireless PCI-Express Adapter: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories I will search some more! I've not done computer component shopping for such a long time..
Arthur Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Do I really need ECC ram for a test environment? No. For a wireless NIC would something like this be ok? Unfortunately that one isn't low profile. I'll have a look and see if I can find one.
sted Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 the prolient microserver will run a vm under hyper and its just about usable with 3gb ram and win7 x64 hyper v and ive not bothered with ecc ram just shoved the first stick i could find in it be aware putting pcix card is will be a bit of a pita i think you have to take the board out to do it then slide it back in and that means disconnecting everything
Dos_Box Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I suggest you have a look around LinITX.com, they are specilists in small systems\servers and components. Start here: LinITX.com - NetTops 1
ihaveaproblem Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Thanks all. I took a look at those at LinITX.com but i still think HP have the best offer. I've been thinking to much... I'm starting to wonder if I should go for something like this instead HP ProLiant ML110 G6 Tower Server 2.8GHz 1GB 250GB GbE.. | Ebuyer.com I know it's moving away from being small small size... My concern is the CPU on the HP Micro. For now I only plan to install one instance of server 2008, but in the future i may want to install more. Realisticly the CPU on the Micro surly cant handle much? The HP ProLiant ML110 G6 has a much more powerfull 2.8ghz cpu which would allow more flexability to run VM's. However i cant claim money back because you have to buy a HP OS which i dont need, so the price would be £225+ £50-70 (8GB DDR 3 RAM) + £10-£20 (Wireless NIC) Total = £285 -£305 A little more than i wanted to pay really. In the long run it might be better though because of the better CPU, plus i beleive i'm correct in saying i can upgrade the cpu in this one because it uses LGA? which again adds more flexability to upgrade that in the future. This will only ever been used for a test environment, i'm just concerned if i installed 2 or 3... or even 1 VM that it would struggle alot. Edited May 13, 2011 by ihaveaproblem
ihaveaproblem Posted May 15, 2011 Author Posted May 15, 2011 I think i've decided i'm going to build my own. It wont turn out as cheap as the HP Micro, somewhere between £250 - £300 i recon. It should be much better though because i can get a decent CPU, good ram, and always have the option to upgrade parts in the future if i need. I was thinking of something like this Case=ITX Size case Motherboard = Gigabyte GA-H67N Gigabyte GA-H67N-USB3-B3 H67 Socket 1155 7.1 Channel.. | Ebuyer.com CPU = Intel Core i3 2100 Intel Core i3 2100 3.10GHz Socket 1155 3MB L3 Cache.. | Ebuyer.com RAM = Kingston 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz Kingston 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz HyperX Blu Memory.. | Ebuyer.com Total= £240 Add a case and it should still be under £300, and i've already got a hard drive i could use unless i wanted to get a SataIII which i'm not that bothered about. Or instead of going for Intel i noticed you can get a AMD phenom cheaper and its quad core AMD Phenom II X4 840 Socket AM3 3.2GHz 2MB Cache.. | Ebuyer.com Do you think the phenom would perform better for what i want due to the quad core ?
dhicks Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Case=ITX Size case I went for an Antec NSK3480 microATX case for one of my home servers: Antec - NSK 3480 -UK Smaller size, comes with built-in energy-efficient power supply. I fitted a couple of harddrives in hot-swap caddies in the 5.25" slots in the front. That's running an Atom CPU, with the CPU and passive cooler all built-in to the £30-odd motherboard. That CPU doesn't include hardware virtualisation support (although it does run paravirtualised Xen VMs just fine), but I'm sure there are virtualisation-supporting Atom motherboards around (about £50?) - just might be a bit cheaper than your Core i3 and separate motherboard. The only issue might be finding a cheap motherboard that takes more than two SATA devices, although you can always add an extra controller card. My other home server is a Core i3, running in a passivly-cooled Tranquil PC case. That easily runs a couple of Windows VMs (one Server 2003, one Windows XP) and a couple of Linux VMs (email, etc) and is left on 24 hours a day with no problems. 1
Arthur Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I was going to suggest going the DIY route too, because Proliant servers start getting expensive really quickly if you want anything faster than a dual-core Pentium G6950. For example, the ML110 G6 with a Xeon X3430 (P/N: 585458-035) costs £430 and the dual-socket ML115 G6 with one Xeon E5502 (P/N: 470065-161) costs £654! I would definitely get a quad-core processor - the Phenom II X4 840 you mentioned would be a great choice. Unless you are short of space, I would also buy a MicroATX motherboard as these all have 4 DIMM slots enabling you to upgrade to 16GB RAM in the future and/or install additional PCIe cards (second NIC, H/W RAID controller etc.).
ihaveaproblem Posted May 15, 2011 Author Posted May 15, 2011 Yep the DIY route is certainly the way to go. I've been thinking about Micro ATX case size... it's just they all seem so big to me. Is there no cases that can fit micro atx size but small, thin and compact? like these http://media.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/reviews/3202421/HP%20Compaq%20dc5800%20Small%20Form%20Factor%20282.jpg http://recommendmeapc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/pcspecminijuly10.jpg they look fairly small and could be layed flat. I'm thinking of something around ps3, xbox size case, is that possible for micro atx?
glennda Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Problem is you will find the mobo's psu's etc are custom made to go inside those cases - it is definatly the case with the HP but not sure about the other. But also the smaller the case the more parts tend to become laptop type ones
dhicks Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I'm thinking of something around ps3, xbox size case, is that possible for micro atx? Don't worry too much about having space inside for expansion, you can use USB wireless devices instead of expansion cards - Edimax do a nice one with the arial all integrated into a USB plug-in device for about £30 from Maplins.
Arthur Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 I'm thinking of something around ps3, xbox size case, is that possible for micro atx? While small(-ish) MicroATX cases exist they tend to be quite expensive and limit the components you can use... HDPlex H5.S - $248 WxHxD: 438 x 60 x 325 mm HDPlex H10.ODD - $258 WxHxD: 438 x 60 x 450 mm Moneual Moncaso 312 - £244 WxHxD: 432 x 105 x 355 mm Silverstone Milo ML03 - £48 WxHxD: 440 x 105 x 340 mm I would look at the following cases instead. They are same or smaller in size than the Proliant ML tower's... Silverstone Sugo SG02B-F - £56 WxHxD: 270 x 212 x 393 mm Lian Li PC-V354B - £128 WxHxD: 245 x 320 x 420 mm Fractal Design Define Mini - £85 WxHxD: 210 x 395 x 490 mm Antec Solo - £79 WxHxD: 206 x 432 x 470 mm Antec NSK2480-UK v2 inc. 380w PSU - £88 WxHxD: 445 x 140 x 414 mm 1
ihaveaproblem Posted May 15, 2011 Author Posted May 15, 2011 having a look through these now ! A question, on some cases it says similar to this 2x USB2, 1x USB3 Does USB 2 and 3 use a different port?? I thought it was all the same, so why should it matter if i used the i/o opening for a usb2 or usb 3 device? Not that it really matters as i have no USB pen drives:)
plexer Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Usb 3 uses a different plug with extra contacts you can plug a usb 1/2 plug in a usb3 socket. I think it is a usb3 b plug that won't fit in any othet socket. Ben 1
Arthur Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Does USB 2 and 3 use a different port?? I thought it was all the same, so why should it matter if I used the I/O opening for a usb2 or usb 3 device? They are different internally. Almost all cases that have front-mounted USB 2.0 ports, use a cable which connects to a 9-pin header on the motherboard. Until quite recently though, most motherboards didn't have (20-pin) USB 3.0 headers, so what case manufacturers did is to create a front-panel connector cable that uses a standard USB type A connector on one end and make you route this out of the back of your case and into one of the USB 3.0 ports on the rear of your motherboard (as shown in the photo below). Not very elegant, but it works. http://i.imgur.com/vAWvE.jpg 1
ihaveaproblem Posted May 18, 2011 Author Posted May 18, 2011 I think I’ve decided I’m going to go for a Lian Li PC-Q08 Case Lian Li Industrial Co., Ltd. It's only micro ITX size, however it can fit a full size graphics cards, 6 hard drives and according to the reviews I’ve read the case has good cooling. It’s a fairly small case and allows a bit of expansion if need be as well. One thing I’m thinking of changing and adding extra to the case is the fans. Personally I’m not a massive fan of the Blue LED front fan. Can anyone recommend some quite, cool running fans at a reasonable price? This build is going to cost a little more than i wanted, but hey:) I've got some money put away for this and I’ve never built a computer specifically for myself before so I’m quite excited lol
Arthur Posted May 19, 2011 Posted May 19, 2011 Personally I'm not a massive fan of the blue LED front fan. I hate super-bright blue LEDs too and try to avoid them at all costs. Can anyone recommend some quiet, cool running fans at a reasonable price? For the front 140mm case fan you can't go wrong with the either of these... Scythe SlipStream 140 (P/N: SM1425SL12M) - £8.63 Yate Loon D14SL-12 - £6.12 (or £2.99 from Aria) Have you decided on the other parts yet?
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