[acs] School Pupil Tracker

[MrPstv]

Hi ,

Is anyone using School Pupil Tracker (web based app) and cmis ?

We have problems with new senco and EAL data not overwriting the old when we extract a CTF file and import into School Pupil Tracker .

Any help appreciated.

[LosOjos]

Hi ,

Is anyone using School Pupil Tracker (web based app) and cmis ?

We have problems with new senco and EAL data not overwriting the old when we extract a CTF file and import into School Pupil Tracker .

Any help appreciated.

 

I'm not aware of those systems, but the CTF format by design doesn't usually overwrite data, it just adds any missing data. Is School Pupil Tracker part of CMIS, or is it a third party app?

[MrPstv]

School Pupil Tracker is a web based application which is not part of CMIS, trying to find other schools that use it to see if they experienced any problems.

[vikpaw]

I'm not aware of those systems, but the CTF format by design doesn't usually overwrite data, it just adds any missing data. Is School Pupil Tracker part of CMIS, or is it a third party app?

 

Wouldn't the behaviour be governed by the receiving system..? I know there is a standard format, but does it fix import actions?

[LosOjos]

Wouldn't the behaviour be governed by the receiving system..? I know there is a standard format, but does it fix import actions?

 

You're quite right Vik, I was going off the assumption that it was all part of CMIS though and so MIS don't tend to overwrite anything when importing CTF's - with a third party app though it's anyone's guess what it does with the CTF

[ChrisJ]

Was very strange this as the CTF did contain the current SEN code. Seemed that pupil tracker was just taking the first code listed rather than the most recent.

[LosOjos]

Was very strange this as the CTF did contain the current SEN code. Seemed that pupil tracker was just taking the first code listed rather than the most recent.

 

Have you informed the developers? Sounds like their system isn't date checking, and if it's doing that with SEN, it could be doing it elsewhere too...

[Metchley]

"Have you informed the developers? Sounds like their system isn't date checking, and if it's doing that with SEN, it could be doing it elsewhere too..."

 

True, but I've found only two "Histories" in a CMIS CTF - SENHistory and SchoolHistory.

 

As said, this program is picking up only the first entry on the History list.

Bad error.

[LosOjos]

"Have you informed the developers? Sounds like their system isn't date checking, and if it's doing that with SEN, it could be doing it elsewhere too..."

 

True, but I've found only two "Histories" in a CMIS CTF - SENHistory and SchoolHistory.

 

As said, this program is picking up only the first entry on the History list.

Bad error.

 

Yeah you may only have found two, but others may also have found the odd one or two, and other MIS may add more history, amplifying the problem... what is a small problem for you could become a big problem later on if it's not dealt with, and you have nothing to lose by reporting it

[Metchley]

Totally true, LosOjos. I wasn't meaning to diss your comment.

Only to try to reassure the OP somewhat!

 

A workaround for the moment would be for the school SENCO to check the SEN entries and manually change them after a CTF import. He/she should know the correct current status of each of their pupils.

 

Another possibility is to import forget the CTF and instead import a report from CMIS. I don't know whether this Tracker has this facility, but you can pull in more info from a report than from a CTF - the pupil teaching group, for example.

[vikpaw]

I'm assuming the first entry in CTF is the earliest. Can't the CTF be doctored to remove the older entries or is a history required to be imported?

[MrPstv]

I have just asked and the old data is not relevant, School Pupil Tracker is supposed to save time but manually deleting data is a work around but not the fix.

Developers have been informed and they have checked the CTF and reply is that it is no error on School Pupil Trackers side ,likewise Link2ict have also stated it is not a problem with CMIS export. So sort of left in the middle on this one. Followed notes for the export of data and the notes only state sims not cmis ? Company has been contacted to see if any other school has had similar issuess but would not disclose information on this. What to do, what to do?

[LosOjos]

Developers have been informed and they have checked the CTF and reply is that it is no error on School Pupil Trackers side ,likewise Link2ict have also stated it is not a problem with CMIS export.

 

If the Pupil Tracking System is not importing the most recent SEN details from the CTF, it is a fault and something they need to deal with - the fact it imports a random piece of SEN data based on nothing more than it's position in the file is not adequate, and you are well within your rights to argue as much.

 

Followed notes for the export of data and the notes only state sims not cmis ?

 

The CTF file format is a standard format that will vary very little from one MIS to the next - by law all MIS systems have to produce CTF's that will be importable by all other MIS systems in this country, so the developers of your pupil tracking system have no excuse for their system not being able to handle the file.

 

Company has been contacted to see if any other school has had similar issuess but would not disclose information on this.

 

To be fair, they have no obligation to provide these details, however there are a vast number of users on these very forums, chances are somebody will be able to share their experiences if you tell us what the name of the system is and who makes it

 

What to do, what to do?

 

I would get back to them pointing out what I've said above and if they can't/won't provide you with a solution better than manually editing the CTF file yourself, take your business elsewhere

[MrPstv]

Website is Schoolpupiltracker.co.uk

[vikpaw]

As LosOjos said, they can't have checked the file, as it's a standard format, so if their system doesn't import it correctly, they should be able to offer a solution as to why.

Try doctoring it, just to see what will and wont work, but it's them that have to deal with it. Working on the assumption that nothing has changed with the CMIS exports and they are coming out in the right format as they should be.

[Metchley]

I'm interested in this because I am responsible for a pupil tracking program and have met and solved this bug.

Here's an excerpt from an email I received from a (very useful) user.

 

"Anyway, I think I may have tracked down the problem. I experimented with importing a ctf from SIMS of just one child, who I know used to be on our SEN Register but has since been taken off. On the ctf it says:

 

 

2008-01-07

N

2005-10-14

P

1

SLCN

2

BS

 

I can see that it shows the child was put at SAP in 2005 but removed from our SEN Register in 2008, giving him the code N, which is what you get in SIMS when you remove a child’s SEN status and means ‘No Special Educational Need’.

But - when I import the ctf into ****** ******* it brings him up as a P under SEN status.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you think we are doing something wrong."

 

No, the user was doing nothing wrong - users like that are absolutely invaluable.

It was my mistake....my Tracker was keeping only the last SEN value.

Once the problem was known it took only a couple of hours to correct it (storing all the values and their dates and sorting by date - taking the latest). BTW, you can't rely on the last date being the latest.

 

Since then I've also put in a copy and paste function. The user can export a report from CMIS with two fields, UPN and SEN Status (or anything else you want), copy both columns and then paste into the Tracker grid.

 

How can the developers of the program you use say it is not their fault?

It's easy to open the CTF and find a child with two or more SEN entries and decide whether or not the program is picking up the most recent one. If it hasn't then it is at fault.

[MrPstv]

UPDATE !!

Since posting my query about School Pupil Tracker we have been informed that the software developers at pupil tracker were on the case whilst we cogitated. They found that there was a slight difference in the way CMIS and SIMS have written their CTFs in regard to the order of SEN codes. They have installed an upgrade to fix it for us. The SEN data now uploads.

[ChrisJ]

They found that there was a slight difference in the way CMIS and SIMS have written their CTFs in regard to the order of SEN codes. They have installed an upgrade to fix it for us. The SEN data now uploads.

 

I knew it

 

Glad you got things sorted.

[LosOjos]

UPDATE !!

Since posting my query about School Pupil Tracker we have been informed that the software developers at pupil tracker were on the case whilst we cogitated. They found that there was a slight difference in the way CMIS and SIMS have written their CTFs in regard to the order of SEN codes. They have installed an upgrade to fix it for us. The SEN data now uploads.

 

Always good to know that developers are listening

[vikpaw]

Always good to know that developers are listening

you mean lurking right