[sims] .Net 4.0 for SIMS Spring Release?

[Cborg]

I had that schoolcomms issues, it prevented reports running because "the document server wasn't running". Adding the location of your sims server to the exceptions in the proxy settings sorted it out though!

[localzuk]

Something to note out of all this is that there are 2 different versions of .net 4. .net 4 client profile and .net4 full (there's no such thing as 'extended' as is being passed around by Capita and LEAs, other than the fact that Microsoft sometimes refers to the extra functionality in full as the 'extended' bit).

 

The summer release requires the .Net 4 full version to be installed. Makes me wonder why it requires it though as the only extra bits in full are:

• ASP.NET
  
• Advanced Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) functionality
  
• .NET Framework Data Provider for Oracle
  
• MSBuild for compiling
  

 

And I'm pretty sure that MS hasn't switched to WCF just yet!

[Sivadam]

I had that schoolcomms issues, it prevented reports running because "the document server wasn't running". Adding the location of your sims server to the exceptions in the proxy settings sorted it out though!

Welcome Carrie! Assuming you are who I think you are .............

But welcome anyway if you are not!

[Cborg]

Welcome Carrie! Assuming you are who I think you are .............

But welcome anyway if you are not!

 

Okay, you found me!

[Sivadam]

Okay, you found me!

 

Yep!

[matt40k]

Something to note out of all this is that there are 2 different versions of .net 4. .net 4 client profile and .net4 full (there's no such thing as 'extended' as is being passed around by Capita and LEAs, other than the fact that Microsoft sometimes refers to the extra functionality in full as the 'extended' bit).

 

The summer release requires the .Net 4 full version to be installed. Makes me wonder why it requires it though as the only extra bits in full are:

• ASP.NET
  
• Advanced Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) functionality
  
• .NET Framework Data Provider for Oracle
  
• MSBuild for compiling
  

 

And I'm pretty sure that MS hasn't switched to WCF just yet!

 

You need full for SOLUS3. Capita have always told me you need FULL, I guess they're using the WCF stuff. The 'extended' normally gets said when we're talking about MSI deployment - as you have 'netfx_Core' and 'netfx_Extended'.

[GardnerITLtd]

Has a self-upgrade guide been released or is it as simple as running a patch? I've deployed .net 4.0 via WSUS and don't want to see my schools waste £150 on 5 minutes of Capita time.

[matt40k]

Has a self-upgrade guide been released or is it as simple as running a patch? I've deployed .net 4.0 via WSUS and don't want to see my schools waste £150 on 5 minutes of Capita time.

 

What do you mean? Installing .net 4.0? Or SOLUS3?

 

SOLUS3 is a service, a database, a user interface and an agent per (SIMS) workstation. If they charge you £150, that's good value. You'll looking at least a 1 days work if not more (1 days wage for the average technician is about £70).

[GardnerITLtd]

Solus3. Capita charge double that for p2p networks so I assume it won't take long to do it. Have you or anyone installed solus3 ?

[matt40k]

Yes, I've been on the field trial from day 1. Not sure why it would take longer. Pretty sure you can browse the computer network (ie p2p) and it'll deploy fine, I guess they're covering themselves.

 

If you're doing it from the Capita guide, I would say 4 hrs reading the documentation and planning, 2 hrs install the server bits out of hours (because I found it sometimes needs a restart), an 1 hr configuring, then it's a question of how you decide to deploy it and the number of clients will define the lenght of time to deploy the clients.

 

Capita recommends you use the user interface to deploy the agent to the clients, which is ok, just a lot of clicking if you have a lot of clients, although you can mass import them as a CSV file. They do give you help about scripting it, personally however I like to create a MST and deploy it over GPO along with .NET 4.0.

 

If your in a p2p network, they say the S3 server should be on 24/7, so you have two options, one is LA managed and the other is well... ignore it. If the S3 server can't pick up the clients, you can't (suprise, suprise) get it to deploy it, answer, do it manually. Loads of horrible settings to put it, answer, script or MST.

[GardnerITLtd]

At one school I have about 30-40 machines to deploy to. How did you generate the msi and mst does S3 do it for you? It is about time SIMS is capable of being pushed rather than pulled. Where is the guide located?

[PiqueABoo]

I just don't grok Capita and this apparent focus on anything besides standard domain deployment methods. Genuine question: Are there really that many P2P networks with lots of SIMS clients about, or are LAs supposed to be using this for lots of little P2P schools they can see, network-wise, from some server in LA-land?

[GardnerITLtd]

I don't have any schools on p2p by the way. I'm not sure if I made it sound like I do. I only know of one small primary on p2p but that's just admin network with 2 pc's and one laptop

[PiqueABoo]

I'm not sure if I made it sound like I do.

 

No, it's not you so much as the perplexing (my words) "best possible way you could ever install dotNet4 is with Solus3.." line, which simply isn't true for most Windows domains especially when it's a relatively core, universal component like dotnet. Ergo, they're just not on the same planet as the rest of us or there's a vaguely credible reason for this e.g. lots of P2P boxes in the SIMS universe.

[matt40k]

You have to make the MST yourself. Capita could make it possible to generate, or the community could create something.

 

Small schools with 1-4 admin pcs are generally not likely to have a dedicated server, so they would, ideally, be managed by the LA centrally - SOLUS3 supports this, assuming they are on the WAN and they have all the correct ports opened.

[PiqueABoo]

Small schools with 1-4 admin pcs are generally not likely to have a dedicated server

 

I presume that's a dedicated Solus3 server using umm.. "modern" amounts of resources?

 

If so then fair enough for that aspect, but given that it is the year 2011 the majority of those schools around here have their 1-4 admin PCs as members of their Windows domain and whatever they prefer to use for s/w deployment ought to be doing the dotNet pre-req (to all their boxes regardless of SIMS).

[matt40k]

No, that a dedicated server as in Windows Server 2003/2008. As in those 1-4 aren't on the domain and stuff is done my hand. SOLUS3 shouldn't eat too much, it's more server heavy then SOLUS2 as it's more server based, but it should limit the amout of installs it does at once.

[localzuk]

No, that a dedicated server as in Windows Server 2003/2008. As in those 1-4 aren't on the domain and stuff is done my hand. SOLUS3 shouldn't eat too much, it's more server heavy then SOLUS2 as it's more server based, but it should limit the amout of installs it does at once.

 

I work in an area filled with small first schools, and I am yet to come across any without their admin machines on a domain. Why do Capita feel its ok to dictate that we need to update SQL to SQL2008, or .Net to v4 but don't feel comfortable saying 'the best way to distribute it is with a simple msi using a GPO'. There are more of us domain users than tiny schools without domains!

[edutech4schools]

Is it just a case of downloading .net 4 full from this link Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 4 (Standalone Installer) installing it onto the server and Sims workstations and then waiting for the summer release?

[matt40k]

@Edutech4schools - Yes, if you support a p2p school, download it, put it on your pen, then go around installing it, come Summer it'll just work.

 

@Localzuk - Sorry, I don't understand, the SOLUS3 agent is a MSI, .NET 4.0 is an MSI, you can deploy them both over GPO, Capita gives you enough information on how to do it, just not enough that anyone could do it. It's basically the same as Sophos, you push out the agent, then the central tool pushes out the updates etc.

 

PS: I know about 150 schools that can't afford a dedicated server and all they have is a basic desktop with a bit extra RAM. Why waste money if you don't need to?

[edutech4schools]

Odd. I have downloaded the full .net4, while extracting it say .net extended but when installing it says .net client profile. is that ok

[matt40k]

Yup. Typical Microsoft.

[edutech4schools]

Another issue I have just encountered is the footprint on c. My server was installed by the CC and they only gave it 10gb for the os drive. Well I only have 1gb of space left to play with so .net is not going to be an option on that.

 

New server is not an option. Can I move the partitions around or dump another drive in the machine? any recommendations.

[vikpaw]

1) Tidy up.

Clear some space. Delete unwanted files. Add a hard drive and move the page file there.

 

2) Resize.

How big is the hard drive in total? Is there plenty of spare space on the other partition? There are a few partition resizing tools that you could use, but it's always a scary thing. Need a good backup of all partitions in case things go wrong and you need to rebuild. I've used Partition Magic before and i think it got bought out by Norton. Easeus and Paragon have free options, but not sure if they work on Server OS. It always used to be separate software for client and server, may be different now.

 

Also, Windows has limited built-in functionality for this, if under specific conditions. Need to be dynamic disk. Not sure if you can do it to the root partition though.

 

3) Add a drive and make it the new C drive, rebuild from scratch, or clone the old one, using Norton Ghost. You could even virtualise onto a new disk.

 

Lots of options, but depends on your skills / confidence to implement. It seems rather shortsighted of the cc to have only given 10GB. I'd contact them initially, and ask their advice because it's their fault.

[Jarmstro36]

Another issue I have just encountered is the footprint on c. My server was installed by the CC and they only gave it 10gb for the os drive. Well I only have 1gb of space left to play with so .net is not going to be an option on that.

 

New server is not an option. Can I move the partitions around or dump another drive in the machine? any recommendations.

 

You Could move the virtual memory (page file) to an alternative drive if that hasn't been carried out.

Or use software to resize the partition, but personnaly i would be careful using that option.

As for p2p networks, you would be surprised at how many authorities still have p2p for their Admin networks.

Capita support approx. 180 schools in the northwest who are p2p, so in essence, each pc will need a visit to install the Solus3 agent before the Solus ui will pick them up, Capita then advise to use Solus 3 to deploy .Net4.

I am advising their Technical staff to start the installs now for .net 4, giving schools a bigger window to deploy Solus3.

Solus 2 will still be around for at least another year if not longer.