Converting shops into schools....

[broc]

Seen on the BBC....

 

 

BBC News - Shops into schools in five months

 

Given the number of poor/mediocre school buildings (according to CABE) that have been built since BSF started, how confident can we be that a converted shop would be a better place for children to learn?

 

What about parking space, bus bays, outdoor playground space, sports fields.... or are these ideas purely aimed at small inner city schools where these things seemingly don't matter?

[alan-d]

How to create an admin security nightmare

As well as cutting down on building costs, there could be other ways of opening buildings more quickly, suggests a spokeswoman, such as giving pupils a grant to buy their own laptops, rather than running centralised computer services.

[Rydra]

Tannoy system:

 

"Can John Smith please come to the Main Office by aisle 3 please..."

[alan-d]

This aisle is for 2 IT problems or less only.

[Domino]

As well as cutting down on building costs, there could be other ways of opening buildings more quickly, suggests a spokeswoman, such as giving pupils a grant to buy their own laptops, rather than running centralised computer services.

 

 

 

...its a bad dream, its a bad dream, it can't hurt you...

[Rydra]

I'd love to know how this scheme is actually going to work...

 

So I can apply to start up a free school, get the government to buy some old shop/commercial space (There's a business park not far from me, with an office block that's mostly been empty for years), spend millions converting it, hire a bunch of mates, and start teaching children?

[broc]

I'd love to know how this scheme is actually going to work...

 

So I can apply to start up a free school, get the government to buy some old shop/commercial space (There's a business park not far from me, with an office block that's mostly been empty for years), spend millions converting it, hire a bunch of mates, and start teaching children?

 

When you take a high-altitude view of things as a politician, that's exactly what you do

[localzuk]

How to create an admin security nightmare

 

Typical of someone who is talking about something that they don't actually do as their core business. Can you imagine it? 300 kids all with their own laptops, all with different OS's, all with different anti-virus software, none of them able to use software owned by the school as site licenses don't cover 'personally owned' equipment. It'd be a right laugh!

[nicholab]

I still don't know why the Tesco's building model is not used they have a stand store design that is modified. I love to see Tesco's modify there prefabricated store design into a school.

[localzuk]

I still don't know why the Tesco's building model is not used they have a stand store design that is modified. I love to see Tesco's modify there prefabricated store design into a school.

 

I had this discussion with some staff here and they said that they'd be happy with a school costing 4 times as much if it looked unique and nice, rather than cookie cutter style.

[creese]

I had this discussion with some staff here and they said that they'd be happy with a school costing 4 times as much if it looked unique and nice, rather than cookie cutter style.

 

And they say we don't take education for granted.

 

I'll teach, if it's in a nice place. Unfortunately NOT unbelievable.

[localzuk]

And they say we don't take education for granted.

 

I'll teach, if it's in a nice place. Unfortunately NOT unbelievable.

 

I know, I said 'what if the school would cost £20m rather than £80m and that extra money could go to staffing and equipment?' and they still said they'd prefer the unique building.

[creese]

I know, I said 'what if the school would cost £20m rather than £80m and that extra money could go to staffing and equipment?' and they still said they'd prefer the unique building.

 

I find that attitude disgusting. I know someone (not in the UK) who started a school in her garage. Her school has grown to 6 concrete block buildings. It does have a nice view of the local mountains but in heavy hailstorms you can't hear due to to ice the size of marrow fat peas hitting the tin roof. But people come from thousands of miles away to teach there. That is what the job is about.

[broc]

I know, I said 'what if the school would cost £20m rather than £80m and that extra money could go to staffing and equipment?' and they still said they'd prefer the unique building.

 

Funnily enough, when I had discussions with architects & representatives from PfS when I was a governor some years ago, I was told part of the Govt brief was that BSF schools had to have 'presence' and 'make an impact' and have 'wow factor'...... & when I suggested something along the lines of a TESCO 'shed' with the ability of reconfiguring space flexibly inside the architect got very snooty & said nobody ever got a design award for designing a shed....

[creese]

No one has ever been taught better because the building looks nice.

 

EDIT: And that Architect's comments prove it.

[localzuk]

Note that I'm not saying schools shouldn't be nice environments. They can be nice environments, but just that there is no need for every one of them to be different, shiney and, what appears to have happened, difficult to actually teach in!

[broc]

Let's face it; if architects can design new school buildings that have cleaners cupboards with no running water; science prep rooms with no gas supply; science labs with gas taps on worktops with wall cupboards immediately above, computer rooms with no A/C, computer rooms with A/C & no computers, staff toilets with swipe card readers that fail, unisex toilets for staff and students in the same area... I am sure there a plenty of others.....

 

How much more fun can architects have with a disused office block or shop? Imagine how you could convert a disused Woollies store in the high street into a school? Even better, convert a few shop units in a shopping mall with adjacent fast food court & multiplex cinema you wouldn't need a dining hall & teachers would be able to send the kids to see a film when they didn't fancy teaching

[Rydra]

The woolies store in Milton Keynes was available up till recently. That would have been perfect! Burger King directly opposite, the big hall just next door for PE, 2 multiplex cinema's, and a waterstones just round the corner.

[maniac]

Typical of someone who is talking about something that they don't actually do as their core business. Can you imagine it? 300 kids all with their own laptops, all with different OS's, all with different anti-virus software, none of them able to use software owned by the school as site licenses don't cover 'personally owned' equipment. It'd be a right laugh!

 

Easy, you have a guest wireless network with a web authentication form for the students, together with massive investment in web applications and terminal services. This is a way forwards, I wouldn't dissmiss it as the simple fact is schools are not going to be able to afford to supply the amount of ICT equipment they currently do or have the money to regularly replace, update and renew this equipment like they do at the moment, so something's got to change. The solution - invest massively in your backend and ability to supply a secure connection to users own end device, deliver as much as possible using web applications, and have terminal servers available for those programs and services that can't be delivered over the web. Then you encourage and allow students to bring in and use their own devices.

 

If it's setup right, it doesn't matter if the students device has a virus on it, as the devices shouldn't be able to see each other, and because the services are delivered via the web, any potential virus shouldn't be able to propogate back to the server. Best way to think of it is like BTopenzone for your school.

 

Mike.

[Sarconia]

I know, I said 'what if the school would cost £20m rather than £80m and that extra money could go to staffing and equipment?' and they still said they'd prefer the unique building.

 

I'm with creese on this one, what a bunch of absolute morons!

 

It's the same attitude as people buying say.. a pink laptop because 'it looks nice' rather than 'it's really high spec'. Looks over actual substance, argh!

[localzuk]

Easy, you have a guest wireless network with a web authentication form for the students, together with massive investment in web applications and terminal services. This is a way forwards, I wouldn't dissmiss it as the simple fact is schools are not going to be able to afford to supply the amount of ICT equipment they currently do or have the money to regularly replace, update and renew this equipment like they do at the moment, so something's got to change. The solution - invest massively in your backend and ability to supply a secure connection to users own end device, deliver as much as possible using web applications, and have terminal servers available for those programs and services that can't be delivered over the web. Then you encourage and allow students to bring in and use their own devices.

 

If it's setup right, it doesn't matter if the students device has a virus on it, as the devices shouldn't be able to see each other, and because the services are delivered via the web, any potential virus shouldn't be able to propogate back to the server. Best way to think of it is like BTopenzone for your school.

 

Mike.

 

Wiping out the ability to use any decent multimedia software, 3d software, specialist/non-terminal services software.

 

Sure, cloud based stuff has its place, but the idea that schools shouldn't provide clients and just serve everything to the kids via cloud/ts is not going to work - there are far too many things that need full machines. Music/DT/Art/etc... all have such packages.

[Rydra]

Ok strange question here, but is anyone here ACTUALLY tempted to try this procedure and apply for starting an independant school?

 

Though I wouldn't want to be a HT, the idea of building a school on my own principles and with a blank slate does appeal somewhat. And they do state, that parents should have a chance/say in how these spring up? Why not someone who has worked in the background of education for X years, and is at least to some degree, paid to keep up with the latest advances in technology and education?

[maniac]

Wiping out the ability to use any decent multimedia software, 3d software, specialist/non-terminal services software.

 

Sure, cloud based stuff has its place, but the idea that schools shouldn't provide clients and just serve everything to the kids via cloud/ts is not going to work - there are far too many things that need full machines. Music/DT/Art/etc... all have such packages.

 

Of course your specialist areas would still have to have dedicated machines, but, at least in this school, a majority of machines are just used for net browsing and typing stuff in word which can be done through a browser or TS session. Whatever happens, I think allowing the proper integration of students own devices is an absolute must for any new ICT infrastructure, which is why the designs for our new system revolve around this very principle.

 

Anyway, this is offtopic from the origenal post - I think there's a whole new thread in it's own right to be had around this topic.

[localzuk]

Of course your specialist areas would still have to have dedicated machines

 

But there, you've just shown why the comment in the original article is nonsense. The school would end up having to support cloud stuff, whilst also maintaining centralised ICT resources.

 

Not to mention that in order to provide all those web based apps and terminal services apps, the school would end up running a considerable centralised system.

[maniac]

But there, you've just shown why the comment in the original article is nonsense.

 

OK, that particular article suggests that all ICT provision could be delivered that way, which is perhaps a step too far, but the idea and principal of allowing students to bring in their own devices to use at school is not actually a bad one in my opinion.

 

The school would end up having to support cloud stuff, whilst also maintaining centralised ICT resources.

 

Not to mention that in order to provide all those web based apps and terminal services apps, the school would end up running a considerable centralised system.

 

Yes and yes - but I don't see a problem with this, it's just a different approach.