Multipoint server setup

[plexer]

Ok I'm looking at setting up a trial of multipoint server in the library to provide service to 5 users at once, 4 on attached clients and one on the host itself.

 

The 2 options I am considering are:

 

Option 1: HP Server running multipoint server + 4 NComputing U170 clients.

Option 2: HP Server running multipoint server + 6 mini display port gfx card + usb cables and hubs for keybaords/mice

 

Ben

[dhicks]

HP Server running multipoint server + 6 mini display port gfx card + usb cables and hubs for keybaords/mice

 

We're maybe considering something similar - probably a small Dell server with a 6-port graphics card for our Humanaties department. I'm not sure if money will turn up for this, though, so if you set one up let us know how you get on.

 

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David Hicks

[SYNACK]

We are also looking at this for our library but with four clients each due to space constraints on the tables. As they are in close proximity and for cost reasons we are looking at i7 based boxes with two dual head GPUs, we are using existing moniters which only have analogue connectors so the multihead GPUs are out unfourtunatly.

 

Due to the limitations of the socket 11xx CPUs we are looking at the socket 13xx i7 line of CPUs which will allow for more than one PCI Express x16 channel allowing one for each of the cards. The i7 CPU will allow for one real core and one hyperthreaded imaginary core for each user and along with some fast drives and 8GB of memory should result in four very capible stations. The one thing I have not figured out as yet though is sound for each individual user in this setup if it ends up being required.

 

Investigating the liscencing it looks like it will cost about $300 per year for the base OS and four CALs.

 

This thread does remind me that I was supposed to have priced up the hardware for it by now and have yet to get to it. I'll have to remember to add it to the list for the comming week.

[dhicks]

Due to the limitations of the socket 11xx CPUs we are looking at the socket 13xx i7 line of CPUs which will allow for more than one PCI Express x16 channel allowing one for each of the cards.

 

Thanks, something for me to check up on. We have half-a-dozen 15" VGA screens, I was intending to use DisplayPort-to-VGA converters to plug them in to the 6-way graphics card, but you reckon it might be cheaper to use multiple dual-head graphics cards instead? I was aiming for 6 workstations, so I'd need to fit three - any recommendations?

 

Investigating the liscencing it looks like it will cost about $300 per year for the base OS and four CALs.

 

I think we'll be buying ours outright.

 

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David Hicks

[SYNACK]

Thanks, something for me to check up on. We have half-a-dozen 15" VGA screens, I was intending to use DisplayPort-to-VGA converters to plug them in to the 6-way graphics card, but you reckon it might be cheaper to use multiple dual-head graphics cards instead? I was aiming for 6 workstations, so I'd need to fit three - any recommendations?

 

I think we'll be buying ours outright.

 

A couple of mid range dual head cards will end up at maybe $200-$250 as opposed to $600+ for a six head one, your sources may be cheaper though as we get hidiously ripped off for anything in the hardware line here. Probably looking at a Nvidia 210 cards with passive cooling and dual DVI-I allowing for newer moniters in future. I would look at the radion line but I have had all sorts of driver issues with them within the last month which makes me want to give them a very wide berth on any 64bit system especially when flash is involved. A flash app should not be able to set the Aero or GDI+ graphics subsystem into a restart loop. Probably looking at a Antec Sonata III case, that along with passive cards should make for very quiet machines for the library. Not sure on the motherboards as yet but some of the socket 13xx series should support more than two and I'll probably go with a lower end i7 900 series CPU.

 

I was not aware that you could buy it outright as I thought that it was only avalible through a volume liscence so I may need to do some more investigating.

[dhicks]

Probably looking at a Nvidia 210 cards with passive cooling and dual DVI-I allowing for newer moniters in future.

 

Good idea there - those 6-port cards look like they have a fairly sizeable fan on them, something passively-cooled might be rather more practical for a classroom.

 

I was not aware that you could buy it outright as I thought that it was only avalible through a volume liscence

 

Bother - I'd better check on that, then, too.

 

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David Hicks

[plexer]

Thanks for the info guys 2 x dual head + on board gfx could well be enough for me tbh.

 

Any systems integrators on board that can advise?

[Axel]

Plexer,

 

I wanted to PM you, but your in-box is full - could you make some space, or PM me an email address....!

[oliphanj]

We are running a test school in the fall that will have about 30 multipoint servers setup. This replaces all of the standard student desktops with multipoint servers.

We are using Dell T3500's with the nvidia NVS 420 and NVS 295. This would give us 6 stations. About $2k each.

We tried using the wyse usb stations and it max's out the cpu if you watch any type of live streaming video on 3 stations and above. We thought that was a huge issue so that is why we went with the other route.

 

Thanks,

Jason

[milt]

I wrote in earlier when I still trying to figure out what to do. Based on some of this forum's advice, I went ahead with Multipoint Server and now have 4 stations running beautifully. It could hardly be easier.

 

For those interested, here is what I did:

bought a core 2 quad, 4GB machine on eBay for $400

added 2 PNY geforce 5200 PCI cards for $70

licensed WMS 2010 and 4 CALs for $200

bought 4 USB hubs (you need one for each station no matter how many slots they have)

plugged in available monitors and mice

booted up, installed video drivers (had to find the right one -- wrong info abounds)

booted up again. (press s)

set up stations

added users

plugged into ethernet (no domain)

done

 

Beautiful. Runs well. My only problem is that my colleague wants to run autocad and this may take a little fiddling.

 

Highly recommended. Expect final cost to be less than $12,000 for 24 seats.

[milt]

I more point: I have purchased some USB audio adapters ($5 or $10 each). Not yet tested, but should work.

[tmcd35]

Thanks for the info guys 2 x dual head + on board gfx could well be enough for me tbh.

 

Any systems integrators on board that can advise?

 

Ben, Sorry I've only just noticed this thread. I have a 7-screen nComp setup in my library, a 4-screen SoftXpand in my food tech room and a suite of Multipoint's in technology. Please feel free to PM me and come and view/test/play with any of this kit over the summer if it helps.

 

If it's not too late I actually have a spare HP MS6000 and 3 spare T-100 thin clients sitting in the server room. I don't mind loaning it to you for a week or two to test and play.

[dhicks]

We're maybe considering something similar - probably a small Dell server with a 6-port graphics card for our Humanaties department.

 

For some reason, Multipoint Server refused to install on the Dell Vostro 200 machine I tried it on - it booted the install DVD, started to load the Windows interface, then simply rebooted. This could have been something to do with the power supply - the Vostro 200 is a desktop machine with a 300W power supply, so the power supply might have struggled somewhat to power two dual-head PCI graphics cards. However, I'm attributing it to the machine's inate Dell-ness - the same machines refuse to PXE boot even though everything else works fine, and a different machine with a 350W power supply seems okay.

 

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David Hicks

[plexer]

Ben, Sorry I've only just noticed this thread. I have a 7-screen nComp setup in my library, a 4-screen SoftXpand in my food tech room and a suite of Multipoint's in technology. Please feel free to PM me and come and view/test/play with any of this kit over the summer if it helps.

 

If it's not too late I actually have a spare HP MS6000 and 3 spare T-100 thin clients sitting in the server room. I don't mind loaning it to you for a week or two to test and play.

 

Thanks have PM'ed you.

 

Ben

[milt]

They do indeed work fine. Had to run setup again after plugging them in. Hub is powered.

[dhicks]

added 2 PNY geforce 5200 PCI cards for $70

booted up, installed video drivers (had to find the right one -- wrong info abounds)

 

Any more details? I've just set up a similar machine with two GeForce FX 5500 PCI graphics cards and have, so far, completely failed to find working drivers for Multipoint Server. Seemingly, they come with 64-bit drivers and are compatible with Windows Vista, but I don't seem to be able to convince Multipoint to recognise them.

 

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David Hicks

[milt]

Any more details? I've just set up a similar machine with two GeForce FX 5500 PCI graphics cards and have, so far, completely failed to find working drivers for Multipoint Server. Seemingly, they come with 64-bit drivers and are compatible with Windows Vista, but I don't seem to be able to convince Multipoint to recognise them.

 

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David Hicks

 

I used Nvidia driver 169.21. You can download it. If you look at the nvidia site you will see that it supports 5500. I had it on a PNY CD (that I got with the card) in a folder and ran setup, but the downloaded file should work too. I didn't get all 4 monitors working until the driver was installed. Before that, only one card was working and it was showing duplicate screens. Afterwards, I had 4 monitors to which I could assign usb hubs. Happy to answer any other questions.

[multipoint]

Have you guys contacted VeryPC? They have a 2,4,6 user Retail product that I saw at a school in Solihull. I gather they also have their own range of access devices that have more USB ports etc than NComputing.

[milt]

I am not using ncomputing at all, just $10 USB hubs and dual head video cards. My entire 24 seat system is coming in at $13,200, based on 4 seat pods.

[plexer]

Ok now pricing up the hardware I am going to propose to use.

 

The most I need from one cluster is the host + 6 clients based on the layout of the room.

 

So what spec do I need:

 

1 x dual quad core = 8 cores = 1 core at least to each machine?

14GB Ram = 2GB to each machine?

 

Ben

[tmcd35]

Ok now pricing up the hardware I am going to propose to use.

 

The most I need from one cluster is the host + 6 clients based on the layout of the room.

 

So what spec do I need:

 

1 x dual quad core = 8 cores = 1 core at least to each machine?

14GB Ram = 2GB to each machine?

 

Ben

 

Hi Ben,

 

Sounds a bit beefy, what sort of work are you looking to do on the machines? On a 6:1 ratio I'd have thought a good spec quad core would do the job for most instances. Maybe look at a 6-core AMD or an i7 with Quad + HT?

 

Also, dependant on use, maybe somewhere between 6Gb and 9Gb would be more, affordable? I'm certain the machines I'm running at the moment, which are on a 5:1 ratio have a Quad core (no HT) and 6Gb Ram and they fly. About to install Solidworks on them

[plexer]

Hi Terry,

 

Thanks for that I'm going to spec an affordable but high spec machine, looking at an HP server at the moment that can take lots of ram and it's got a single quad core but has a spare socket so I suppose if it turns out to be an issue I can slap in another processor. It has 12 dimm slots I think so again can always add more ram if required allthough I am a bit concerned about noise.

 

Will be interesting to see how you get on with solidworks.

 

I was looking at using multiple gfx cards as well instead of the usb boxes.

 

I'll drop you a message tomorrow regarding your kit.

 

Ta.

 

Ben

[plexer]

I was planning on using multiple gfx's cards in the host hoping to maximise video performance and then have a powered usb hub at each monitor to plug in their keyboard, mouse and any usb flash device however I am now wondering what to do about audio as the HP and NComputing solutions have audio on their usb device.

 

Ta.

 

Ben

[tmcd35]

I ran a test on Solidworks before buying into the solution, these machines appeared to handle my basic attempts at 3D design fairly well. We've used Lindy USB audio devices in the past (about £20, i think), Not tested but I'm pretty sure they'll plug and play into a usb hub on Multipoint.

[multipoint]

That is grossly overspecced buddy! The GreenHive Mulipoint 6 User Direct Connection appliance; Intel I5 750 2.66GHz, 4GB DDR3 1333, DVDRW, 4 Port USB Card, 3 x Nvidia 8400GS 512MB Graphics Card, 160GB 7200rpm HDD, 12 USB, 2 front, 10 rear, 10/100/1000 LAN, 300W 80+ Bronze PSU, No Operating System, 3 Yr RTB Warranty, Aluminium Tower chassis, 6 Connected through Graphics output and 4 Port USB Hub or KB/MS , Audio etc Was on a primary school sheffield tender at £659 RRP. Some VAR or another won it, but apparently tonnes quoted out.