iPad in schools

[localzuk]

Why will "all day battery life" devices be useful in a school which already has a desktop environment in place? Maybe I'm missing the point here, but as yet, I have yet to see a valid argument for introducing such battery devices to replace their desktop equivalent en masse. Thus far, it seems to be that these items will be introduced and we will invent a way to justify their usefulness.

 

At the moment, our school has 3 IT suites that get booked by teachers for lessons. This is therefore a limited resource. We very often find teachers who can't get into an IT room at all as someone else has booked it in advance. If the kids had personal devices such as iPads, they would be able to whip them out during any lesson at any time, to do much of what they'd usually have done on a full desktop PC. Factor in the settling time and the 'packing away/logging off' time for traditional IT room use and you realise that a good 5 - 10 minutes is wasted in every booked IT room lesson - personal devices would pretty much eliminate that.

[Jamo]

Talking of laptops, does anyone else here use CC3 and find laptops such a big pain due to the fact that they HAVE to install updates on reboot? No silent installs while someone is working. It means I have to go and turn on the laptops after a hotfix has been applied!! A right pain!

[Guest theeldergeek]

There was no NEED for cars when they were invented. There is now, as we have created a need for them! Motorways didn't exist when cars were invented. People were quite happy to take trains for long distance travel, with horse/coach trips to the stations. Goods were shipped via the sea, by canal, or by train. Again, no NEED for cars.

 

Cars were invented at first as a gimmicky gadget for the rich to own - to allow them to drive around and be prestigious. It was only once it became clear of the advantages of cars that other companies started tinkering and making them. Once they became really popular, motorways were invented and implemented to allow cars to move around faster.

 

You are trying to say that we should only use things which have an actual NEED now, rather than what I (and others) are saying which is that these devices may not have a NEED now, they will instead end up having one in a few years time when more people use them, so we as schools should be looking at ways to use them, and to get the most out of them with the minimum of fuss within our classrooms.

 

Also, why on earth doesn't paper weight count? I remember in my secondary school, I would be carrying an average of 3000 pages of books into school with me each day, to put in my (school paid for) locker. I would need a couple of minutes between lessons to go out of my way to visit my locker to collect books, then go to my lesson - with every start or end of a lesson involving a couple of minute 'waiting' time for pupils to turn up. The books were also paid for by the school - and I'm sure you should know, big text books aren't cheap. All our notes were done on paper provided by the school also, again more cost. Something like a netbook, personal laptop or ipad would mean having the latest version of a book available on screen as soon as the pupil turned it on, they could store their work on it, or access it on the school VLE. A teacher could set a test on the VLE and the pupils could all do it there and then via their device, with the teacher being able to give out results much faster than before.

 

So, why specifically do you think iPads and similar devices are a bad idea in schools?

 

There is no need for anything to be invented by your rationale.

 

In my opinion, cars were invented because they would better the way people got around, plaything of the rich and famous or not. A need was identified, and an invention created.

 

The iPad and other handheld devices have answered a need. People can now be more or less anywhere they want and do the things they need to do. The mobile phone didn't need to be invented as we had phone boxes (remember those?) but the mobile phone bettered how a phone could be used.

 

However, in schools, we are looking for ways to integrate these devices into the curriculum. We are looking for a need when perhaps one doesn't actually exist? Add to that the cost, maintenance, support and everything else that messes up the equation, and you have a mess to deal with.

 

Kids don't need gadgets in schools to learn. They have enough gadgets in society that they can play with. They can game, they can text, they can communicate. But do we actually need these gadgets in our schools? I don't think we do.

 

I have spoken to teachers here today who recoiled in horror when I said we were going to be replacing the IT suites with netbooks. In each and every case, the question was "why?"

[localzuk]

There is no need for anything to be invented by your rationale.

 

In my opinion, cars were invented because they would better the way people got around, plaything of the rich and famous or not. A need was identified, and an invention created.

 

The iPad and other handheld devices have answered a need. People can now be more or less anywhere they want and do the things they need to do. The mobile phone didn't need to be invented as we had phone boxes (remember those?) but the mobile phone bettered how a phone could be used.

 

However, in schools, we are looking for ways to integrate these devices into the curriculum. We are looking for a need when perhaps one doesn't actually exist? Add to that the cost, maintenance, support and everything else that messes up the equation, and you have a mess to deal with.

 

Kids don't need gadgets in schools to learn. They have enough gadgets in society that they can play with. They can game, they can text, they can communicate. But do we actually need these gadgets in our schools? I don't think we do.

 

I have spoken to teachers here today who recoiled in horror when I said we were going to be replacing the IT suites with netbooks. In each and every case, the question was "why?"

 

Ok, think of it this way. A child today can spend all their own time engaging life with technology adding in to it. They see flashy applications everywhere they go, making things fun. Now they come to school, an environment where such things are snubbed as they 'cost too much' and find the environment boring. This leads to lower attainment as children learn more when they enjoy the learning process. Why should school end up being associated with dullness and boredom?

 

Why would you be replacing IT suites with netbooks? That makes no sense. What people are proposing is that personal devices such as netbooks supplement existing technologies in place. Eventually, it is likely those existing technologies will be supplanted with the personal devices, as their use increases.

 

I suppose it really comes down to how you think children learn. Do you reckon children learned as much in victorian schools, with ultra strict school masters, chalk boards etc... or do you think they learn more in modern schools with engaging lessons, individualised learning etc...?

Edited May 11, 2010 by localzuk

[Guest theeldergeek]

At the moment, our school has 3 IT suites that get booked by teachers for lessons. This is therefore a limited resource. We very often find teachers who can't get into an IT room at all as someone else has booked it in advance. If the kids had personal devices such as iPads, they would be able to whip them out during any lesson at any time, to do much of what they'd usually have done on a full desktop PC. Factor in the settling time and the 'packing away/logging off' time for traditional IT room use and you realise that a good 5 - 10 minutes is wasted in every booked IT room lesson - personal devices would pretty much eliminate that.

 

If are convinced you have justified a reason to have them, then go buy them. The argument is not to not do so. The argument is can it be justified.

[broc]

I suppose it really comes down to how you think children learn. Do you reckon children learned as much in victorian schools, with ultra strict school masters, chalk boards etc... or do you think they learn more in modern schools with engaging lessons, individualised learning etc...?

There's a very good question.....

 

I watched a bunch of kids this morning during a GCSE photography exam; I was impressed with their skill with Photoshop, less so with their ability to spell, punctuate, or follow verbal instructions given to them by the staff supervising the exam.

 

The question I ask myself is, should we be teaching them how to behave, how to spell & punctuate (skills they will need in their adult life) or teach them how to manipulate images with photoshop... a skill for many that will be wasted?

[enjay]

As for netbooks being used for part of a lesson, what is wrong with shutting down a desktop PC or simply turning the screen off, something which would be a lot quicker than shutting down and packing away a netbook.

Nothing, so long as you are one of the first two classes to try and book the IT Suite that lesson, and not one of the x many other classes also happening at that time.

Nothing, so long as the School doesn't mind that a teacher takes a class of 3 pupils into a room with 25 other computers which can't them be used by anyone else for that lesson.

Nothing, so long as you don't want them to use other specialist equipment as well.

Nothing, so long as they don't need space to put books or paper down when they're not using the computers

Nothing, so long as the teacher is happy that they can't see the whole class and that the students can't easily see each other, thus rendering class discussions difficult.

So, actually, quite a bit!

 

You are inventing typical "it would be so much better" scenarios which actually aren't if you took a minute to think about it.

No I'm not. I'm identifying typical problems which we currently face (not inventing anything) which iPads/netbooks could address.

Edited May 11, 2010 by enjay

[Jamo]

Nothing, so long as you are one of the first two classes to try and book the IT Suite that lesson, and not one of the x many other classes also happening at that time.

Nothing, so long as the School doesn't mind that a teacher takes a class of 3 pupils into a room with 25 other computers which can't them be used by anyone else for that lesson.

Nothing, so long as you don't want them to use other specialist equipment as well.

Nothing, so long as they don't need space to put books or paper down when they're not using the computers

Nothing, so long as the teacher is happy that they can't see the whole class and that the students can't easily see each other, thus rendering class discussions difficult.

So, actually, quite a bit!

 

 

No I'm not. I'm identifying typical problems which we currently face (not inventing anything) which iPads/netbooks could address.

 

Surely the teachers shuld be booking the IT suites in advance then rather than waiting to the last minute and finding that someone else beat you to it! Its common sense surely!

 

What specialist equipment can you use on the iPad or netbooks that you cant use on a desktop?

[localzuk]

Surely the teachers shuld be booking the IT suites in advance then rather than waiting to the last minute and finding that someone else beat you to it! Its common sense surely!

 

What specialist equipment can you use on the iPad or netbooks that you cant use on a desktop?

 

Yes, teachers book those rooms in advance, but there are still a limited number of them, and many classes going on at the same time!

[enjay]

Surely the teachers shuld be booking the IT suites in advance then rather than waiting to the last minute and finding that someone else beat you to it! Its common sense surely!

 

However far in advance you book it, there are only 2 IT Suites, so someone is going to be disappointed.

 

What specialist equipment can you use on the iPad or netbooks that you cant use on a desktop?

 

I meant specialist equipment in the room, e.g. Technology or Science rooms - you can start a lesson on netbooks and then put them to one side more easily than you could relocate the whole class from IT Suite to Lab - even more so if you want the computers in the middle of the lesson.

[localzuk]

There's a very good question.....

 

I watched a bunch of kids this morning during a GCSE photography exam; I was impressed with their skill with Photoshop, less so with their ability to spell, punctuate, or follow verbal instructions given to them by the staff supervising the exam.

 

The question I ask myself is, should we be teaching them how to behave, how to spell & punctuate (skills they will need in their adult life) or teach them how to manipulate images with photoshop... a skill for many that will be wasted?

 

I'd be thinking that if a student has taken a photography course, and does it well, then why is that a problem? Their lack of skills in other subjects is for those subjects to address is it not?

 

Your argument seems to indicate that our schools should cut back to the bare minimum and ignore the other aspects of life. So does that mean we should be purely English, Maths and Science education centres? How do you determine what is useful or not? Is Art useful? How about Geography?

[Guest theeldergeek]

Ok, think of it this way. A child today can spend all their own time engaging life with technology adding in to it. They see flashy applications everywhere they go, making things fun. Now they come to school, an environment where such things are snubbed as they 'cost too much' and find the environment boring. This leads to lower attainment as children learn more when they enjoy the learning process. Why should school end up being associated with dullness and boredom?

 

Why would you be replacing IT suites with netbooks? That makes no sense. What people are proposing is that personal devices such as netbooks supplement existing technologies in place. Eventually, it is likely those existing technologies will be supplanted with the personal devices, as their use increases.

 

I suppose it really comes down to how you think children learn. Do you reckon children learned as much in victorian schools, with ultra strict school masters, chalk boards etc... or do you think they learn more in modern schools with engaging lessons, individualised learning etc...?

 

Please tell me where I have disagreed with the supplementing of technology? All along I have stated that I do not agree with the addition of technology where perfectly adequate facilities already exist, i.e. progress for progress sake.

 

For example : If an ICT suite of the latest technology exists, but a science teacher requires a netbook to go out in the field with for environmental studies, then I have absolutely no problem with that. Buy them a netbook. That's progress.

 

However, if that same teacher then suggests that a netbook would somehow enhance their lessons when they have a perfectly good ICT suite available (with computers that do the very same thing as the netbook) then I would strongly disagree. Progress for progress sake.

 

I do not agree with giving kids their own laptops for reasons I stated earlier, i.e. lack of respect for someone else's property, but this stems from the viewpoint of supporting such. However, I DO accept that this may be inevitable.

 

What I don't want to see, is portable technology being pushed onto schools, and then reasons for doing so being thought about after the event. Let's have genuine and justifiable reasons to do so first, and then provide the technological answers. That takes me back to a point I made earlier about how the decision makers can be swayed to insist we need such technology because it has been demonstrated to them in such a way as to make out it would be useful, when in actual fact it will do exactly the same as the infrastructure already in place.

 

As for kids enjoying learning, yes, it needs to be done in a way that produces academic excellence, and if technology supplements that, then for me, as you will have read above, no problem.

[localzuk]

Please tell me where I have disagreed with the supplementing of technology? All along I have stated that I do not agree with the addition of technology where perfectly adequate facilities already exist, i.e. progress for progress sake.

 

I have spoken to teachers here today who recoiled in horror when I said we were going to be replacing the IT suites with netbooks. In each and every case, the question was "why?"

 

See how I can think you wanted to replace IT suites with netbooks?

 

However, if that same teacher then suggests that a netbook would somehow enhance their lessons when they have a perfectly good ICT suite available (with computers that do the very same thing as the netbook) then I would strongly disagree. Progress for progress sake.

 

Except for the time saved organising kids to go from their usual room to the IT room, or the ability to switch quickly, in lessons, between computers and non-computer related materials (showing a science experiment for example).

 

I do not agree with giving kids their own laptops for reasons I stated earlier, i.e. lack of respect for someone else's property, but this stems from the viewpoint of supporting such. However, I DO accept that this may be inevitable.

 

How do you teach a child respect for devices without giving the devices to them?

[Jamo]

I'd be thinking that if a student has taken a photography course, and does it well, then why is that a problem? Their lack of skills in other subjects is for those subjects to address is it not?

 

And when said student gets told to 'draw their conclusions' on the project which they have been working on and type CONCLUSIONS over a photo becuase they cant understand English....

 

Nothing can replace the fundemental core subjects, without them we are missing the point of education!

[localzuk]

And when said student gets told to 'draw their conclusions' on the project which they have been working on and type CONCLUSIONS over a photo becuase they cant understand English....

 

Nothing can replace the fundemental core subjects, without them we are missing the point of education!

 

How about the rest of that post? Why ignore it?

[Jamo]

Your argument seems to indicate that our schools should cut back to the bare minimum and ignore the other aspects of life. So does that mean we should be purely English, Maths and Science education centres? How do you determine what is useful or not? Is Art useful? How about Geography?

 

They are useful in their own right. I'm sure a course in iPad use would be great too, but lets not pretend that an iPad can replace books and be a wonder device which will make kids engage better in class.

[broc]

The point I was trying to make was that it's all very well teaching the students a broad range of subjects (something I agree with in principle), but without the core skills in place are we doing them any favours? Maybe one or two will go on to become the next Bailey or Ansel Adams or make a living as a professional photographer but without the core skills the odds are stacked against them achieving this.

 

We should not ignore the basics in the quest to get more and more technology into the classroom....

[Guest theeldergeek]

See how I can think you wanted to replace IT suites with netbooks?

 

No, sorry, I don't. Let me make it absolutely clear. I don't want to replace IT suites with netbooks. However, there is clearly talk of doing just this by giving each pupil a laptop in favour of the conventional IT suite, which I think is madness for all the reasons previously given.

 

Except for the time saved organising kids to go from their usual room to the IT room, or the ability to switch quickly, in lessons, between computers and non-computer related materials (showing a science experiment for example).

 

How often do you think this occurs? Would the frequency of such justify the mass purchase of a whole class of laptops??

 

How do you teach a child respect for devices without giving the devices to them?

 

I've already acknowledged that children may end up with these things as part of their education, but, as I have also mentioned, I do not relish the thought of supporting such. It's not about them not having them, period, it's what they will do with them when they do have them. That's a personal worry from personal experience, it's not an opinion.

 

However, you seem to still be taking what I say completely out of context in that I am dead against the progress of technology in our schools.

 

Let me clarify - I agree with the advancement of handheld technology in schools where there is justifiable cause to do so. I do not agree with the acquisition of new handheld technology where it mirrors existing technology unnecessarily or will not be utilised because a need for it to be in place has yet to be found, a.k.a that 'must have' scenario.

Edited May 11, 2010 by theeldergeek

[CHR1S]

The point I was trying to make was that it's all very well teaching the students a broad range of subjects (something I agree with in principle), but without the core skills in place are we doing them any favours? Maybe one or two will go on to become the next Bailey or Ansel Adams or make a living as a professional photographer but without the core skills the odds are stacked against them achieving this.

 

We should not ignore the basics in the quest to get more and more technology into the classroom....

 

So other than working out apature, ISO and stops, what would an A* GCSE in Maths provide for a photographer? Or knowing the chemical composition of Au or something with a Science GCSE?

 

My English at GCSE was appalling, (it probably shows lol), has it affected me?

[Pete10141748]

Let me clarify - I agree with the advancement of handheld technology in schools where there is justifiable cause to do so. I do not agree with the acquisition of new handheld technology where it mirrors existing technology unnecessarily or will not be utilised because a need for it to be in place has yet to be found.

 

I agree, and think that's a very valid point of view.

 

We were victim of the "will not be utilised because a need for it to be in place has yet to be found" here, the school brought in (without even consulting me, of course) 24 PDA devices. After 2 meetings and lots of thinking by the Head and SMT, no-one came up with any decent use for them, even fewer people actually wanted anything to do with them, and currently they are occupying a cupboard with a very thick layer of dust on the handles. That money could have been put to such better use.

[enjay]

So other than working out apature, ISO and stops, what would an A* GCSE in Maths provide for a photographer?

 

The ability to manage their accounts once they've set up business as a photographer?

[localzuk]

However, you seem to still be taking what I say completely out of context in that I am dead against the progress of technology in our schools.

 

Let me clarify - I agree with the advancement of technology in schools where there is justifiable cause to do so. I do not agree with the acquisition of new technology where it mirrors existing technology unnecessarily or will not be utilised because a need for it to be in place has yet to be found.

 

I don't think you're against the use of tech in schools, what I do think is that your level of justification required seems to be a lot higher than I would expect. Dozens of reasons to justify the use of personal devices have been given, and so far you've only really repeated your same objection claiming there is no justification as yet. That's how I see it anyway.

[enjay]

How often do you think this occurs? Would the frequency of such justify the mass purchase of a whole class of laptops??

 

Probably not very often, because of how long it actually takes. If, however, you could provide a quick and easy way of switching between computer-based and paper-based work, you would likely find it happening quite a lot. Technology can be used to ease existing practice, but it also serves to enable new practice - build it and they will come, to quote Wayne's World!

[Guest theeldergeek]

I agree, and think that's a very valid point of view.

 

We were victim of the "will not be utilised because a need for it to be in place has yet to be found" here, the school brought in (without even consulting me, of course) 24 PDA devices. After 2 meetings and lots of thinking by the Head and SMT, no-one came up with any decent use for them, even fewer people actually wanted anything to do with them, and currently they are occupying a cupboard with a very thick layer of dust on the handles. That money could have been put to such better use.

 

That is just the thing. Someone said earlier that we need to find way to integrate these things into the curriculum. Madness! Buy them because you need them, not because you are going to have to find a way to use them.

[CHR1S]

The ability to manage their accounts once they've set up business as a photographer?

 

But thats a job for an accountant, right? My mate is one of the best block pavers around and he employes one, when my mom was self employed, she had one.

Being, sub par at maths wont and didnt stop anyone from earning a good living.