Who Will The Geeks Vote For In The General Election

[mattx]

The Tories...... I remember them......

 

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6762/newtories.gif

[torledo]

Well, the '£12bn savings' by the Tories were exactly as expected - slash IT projects, freezing recruitment, and 'renegotiating contracts'.

 

Now, if people don't realise that that means 'job losses' across the IT industry, public sector and support sectors, then they are blind. The IT industry in the UK has already had a very rough couple of years - with 10k workers being laid off a week last year at one point. Do the Tories plan to sit back and wipe out yet another industry?

 

They talk of their being 400k people who leave and join the public sector in the UK each year, and say that by not hiring new people to replace them they can save money. Well, yes, not filling posts will save money but it will also damage services. Most of those people moving around jobs will fall within the 'lower paid' ranks of jobs. School TAs, administrative assistants, etc... What will these people do instead? Go on the dole?

 

The Tory plan is poorly thought out and will, if they get in, be poorly executed.

 

but labour will also follow a process of cutting back on IT projects, not refilling posts, 'natural wastage' of staff.....because it's easier to pitch such ideas than to actually talk about cuts in budgets.

 

so what's your point ? Are you choosing to ignore that the other parties will tread a not disimilar path ?

Or do you really believe that labour can fill the holes with tax rises alone ?

[torledo]

Unlikely - that will be where 'renegotiating contracts' comes in. ie. getting more stuff outsourced, for less.

 

i thought that's what labour had been doing since the early noughties. and would probably continue to do if reelected. ??

[mattx]

I'd vote for a drinking party if there was one.

[Guest Guest]

Messed up the economy, repaired it ...

 

 

So they've done one better than Labour then?

[mattx]

So they've done one better than Labour then?

 

If you can call 6 million un-employed then yes !!

[duncane]

Through the late 90s and into the early part of the 2000s Labour paid back debt - it fell from about 42% of GDP to just less than 30%. In part, that's because GDP went up but it's also because Gordon Brown as chancellor did pay back money which had been borrowed earlier.

 

Doesn't that roughly coincide with the time when the Labour Party committed itself to the former Conservative Government's spending plans? I think it was the first three years (1997-2000)?

[torledo]

So they've done one better than Labour then?

 

the funny thing about his little poster, is that labour haven't actually reversed any of that privatisation.

 

Infact i'm pretty sure there are one or two high profile examples during the last decade of public entities being spun off into private companies and then the former managers taking up lucrative positions......i can think of one firm which immediately springs to mind. And no doubt there are other examples.

 

to a degree broc is right, that there is a battle in labour between old labour and new labour, with new labour elements probably embracing more so market capitalism. Or atleast ackowledging that we can't go back thirty years and we do have a powerful financial services sector in this country.....that does facilitate a helluva lot of trade and wealth creation.

[torledo]

If you can call 6 million un-employed then yes !!

 

i thought unemployment peaked at roughly 3 million under the tories.

[srochford]

i thought unemployment peaked at roughly 3 million under the tories.

 

The problem is that Margaret Thatcher changed the way unemployment was counted a huge number of times (I think it was 23) to massage down the figures so it's hard to be exact - there were certainly more people not working who wanted to work than were counted in her figures.

 

It's pretty much down to her that we have the huge number of people on incapacity benefit - they were given that rather than unemployment because they didn't mess up the stats. Now we're stuck with people who seem to believe that they really can't work and have pretty much lost the desire to do it.

[broc]

We are doomed.... what ever happens....

 

I think we should all go and buy loads of cheap cider & drown our sorrows this weekend

[AyatollahPies]

Are there any parties that pledge to tax BTLs?

 

They'll get my vote.

[fafster]

Lib Dems for me. They can't do any worse than Labour, and there's no chance I'm voting Conservative.

[localzuk]

 

but labour will also follow a process of cutting back on IT projects, not refilling posts, 'natural wastage' of staff.....because it's easier to pitch such ideas than to actually talk about cuts in budgets.

 

so what's your point ? Are you choosing to ignore that the other parties will tread a not disimilar path ?

Or do you really believe that labour can fill the holes with tax rises alone ?

 

Why do you always focus on Labour or Conservatives? I've already made it clear I will be voting for neither of them. Labour ruined the country in the last decade, the tories wish to continue it. The only ones who are saying anything sensible are Lib Dems.

 

i thought that's what labour had been doing since the early noughties. and would probably continue to do if reelected. ??

 

Indeed, that's why they shouldn't be re-elected.

[broc]

Not voting for Labour is as good as voting Conservative.... in terms of deciding who will govern the country.

 

A dilemma facing many people

[tmcd35]

Not voting for Labour is as good as voting Conservative.... in terms of deciding who will govern the country.

 

 

That's a self fullfilling profecy! It's caused by...

 

- Voters staying at home because they believe their vote doesn't count. 61% last time, 59% turn out the time before.

- Voters believing the choice is only between two parties so vote for the lesser of two evils rather than their own believes.

- A first past the post electorial system that allows a party to get >50% seats with <40% of the national vote.

 

Maybe if more people took an interest, more people got out and voted, more people voted for what they believe - we'd have a chance at getting out of this mess?

[broc]

That's a self fullfilling profecy! It's caused by...

 

- Voters staying at home because they believe their vote doesn't count. 61% last time, 59% turn out the time before.

- Voters believing the choice is only between two parties so vote for the lesser of two evils rather than their own believes.

- A first past the post electorial system that allows a party to get >50% seats with <40% of the national vote.

 

Maybe if more people took an interest, more people got out and voted, more people voted for what they believe - we'd have a chance at getting out of this mess?

 

I agree with you... totally!

[torledo]

i just can't believe that the most labour have to offer is another five years of tinkering with taxes and putting off any hard spending choices.

 

Is that going to stop the wealth gap from continuing to exist ? I don't think so. I agree with progressive taxatoin rather than the 'flat' tax proposed by some, but i can't believe that it's redistributive. Taxing high earners half of their salary isn't stopping them from earning those sums and ploughing the money into investment and assets which provide better returns....plus the rich know how to minimise the tax burden and seek out more tax friendly ways of moving their money around.

 

But then again that's all labour have, because they will never cut off the welfare to the high earners. Will they ever cut the high five figure and six figure salaries to managers in the public sector ? Will they outlaw some of the methods of financial speculation which allow high six figure and seven earners to coin it ? not a chance.

 

No. It's all after the fact taxation which doesn't really inhibit the earning power AND spending power of the high earners.

[torledo]

The only ones who are saying anything sensible are Lib Dems.

 

ok, they are saying something that you and others agree with. They do that from being in a position of the 'third' party. Who cannot be in a position to win outright under the currenct system.......whereas what labour and the tories say will have a bearing because they could literally be running the country within a few weeks.

 

So both osbourne and darling have to be more circumspect when they discuss issues on the economy.....whereas the LD's can say all sorts and much of it doesn't really matter, until such point as they become a genuine contender for outright victory. Then what ? Would they still believe in the euro and nationalising the banks if what they said really mattered ?

[localzuk]

ok, they are saying something that you and others agree with. They do that from being in a position of the 'third' party. Who cannot be in a position to win outright under the currenct system.......whereas what labour and the tories say will have a bearing because they could literally be running the country within a few weeks.

 

Can you explain this further? Why can't they win? If people voted properly, then they'd have a chance...

 

So both osbourne and darling have to be more circumspect when they discuss issues on the economy.....whereas the LD's can say all sorts and much of it doesn't really matter, until such point as they become a genuine contender for outright victory. Then what ? Would they still believe in the euro and nationalising the banks if what they said really mattered ?

 

I'd hope they would be following through on election pledges, and don't suddenly turn into the third copy of the conservatives.

[tmcd35]

until such point as they become a genuine contender for outright victory. Then what ? Would they still believe in the euro and nationalising the banks if what they said really mattered ?

 

How will we ever know/find out if we keep repeating the same endless lab/tory cycle that has got us no where over the past 100 years? Change has to start somewhere. Maybe it's with a Lib Dem party with a strong voice advocating change in a hung parliament, maybe it's not - only time will tell. Personally I sooner give them the benefit of the doubt since we know where the lab/tory cycle will continue to lead us.

[duncane]

If the Liberal Democrats had a real chance, then the other two parties would turn more of their scrutiny on them. At the moment the Liberal Democrats tend to get an easy ride. The Liberal Democrats best hope is to sneak to power, without people really getting a chance to vet their policies.

[torledo]

How will we ever know/find out if we keep repeating the same endless lab/tory cycle that has got us no where over the past 100 years? Change has to start somewhere. Maybe it's with a Lib Dem party with a strong voice advocating change in a hung parliament, maybe it's not - only time will tell. Personally I sooner give them the benefit of the doubt since we know where the lab/tory cycle will continue to lead us.

 

yes, i think benefit of the doubt is fair enough.

 

but i'm just wondering how different they really are from the tories [we know they're not that very different from labour], and how workable some of their proposals are under the current systems we have in place.

 

that comes under scrutiny now. i'd be interested to know what changes they are promising as a new govt. stand up to scrutiny. [and that's not just a case of 'if we don't vote them in we'll never know'].

[torledo]

If the Liberal Democrats had a real chance, then the other two parties would turn more of their scrutiny on them. At the moment the Liberal Democrats tend to get an easy ride. The Liberal Democrats best hope is to sneak to power, without people really getting a chance to vet their policies.

 

i think you just hit the nail on the head, duncane. ;0)

[gshaw]

Definitely want Brown out, that guy couldn't run a bath let alone the country (and he hates drivers as well so that's reason alone to kick him out!)

 

Somehow don't Cameron and as a football fan I know he was in charge of ITV Digital and we know what happened there so still a bit dubious.

 

I'll go for UKIP as I always do... won't get in but I feel better nonetheless