Migrating a DC to new Hardware

[spc-rocket]

Hello all,

 

We are looking to migrate two of our DCs currently running Windows 2000 Server to new hardware. I'm looking for something easy as possible and have looked at one solution but not sure on how to go about doing it.

 

The product i looked at is Acronis True Image 9.1 for Windows Server and the Universal Restore option. According to their documentation it allows you to restore to different hardware.

 

Just wondering if anyone has used this product before and if so could provide any pointers/starting off point.

 

TIA,

 

Ash.

[tarquel]

Just a thought, but couldn't you buy Srv 2003 [R2] for the new hardware?

 

NT to 2003 was pretty painless, so 2000 should be easier ....um....right? lol

 

Nath.

[ajbritton]

Much less risky to install fresh copy of OS on new hardware. If you don't, you'll forever wonder if the install is really solid every time there's a problem.

[spc-rocket]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the replies. The problem is that these server are RM server and obvisouly commissioned by them. They have software that images the server and then they restore this to new hardware and everything is intact as when the image is taken so no need to have new server names etc.

 

The cost £2500 per server that does not include the cost of the new hardware - what a rip off!!!!!

 

Ash.

[bossman]

not really ashok when you look at what they are doing and what they guarantee. This would be normal rate for any IT company recommissioning two servers. If you think you can do it without their help or expertise you go ahead and do it at your peril.

BTW ashok i do think you have a good idea in utilising Acronis server imaging

software but i think you will find it not as simple as you are expecting.

ajbritton has the better solution i feel.

[djm968]

I agree that is a bit of a rip off. I have done several RM migrations connect 2.4 and CC3 and for your two 2K servers, I would say you are looking at around 5 days work tops. So £1000 per day is a bit over the top. You should expect to pay half this if you out source the work.

[spc-rocket]

I'm going to trial the acronis true image software and test it on a non-critical server and see what happens.

 

This should give me an idea of what gets migrated and what falls over. The problem with the cost i see is that the software they use doesn't cost that much - I think they use Symantec LiveState (now called Backup Exec Server Recovery or something) which only cost arounf £370 approx.

 

Its the cost of the person comming on site and his/her travelling cost etc that makes up the cost, that what they reckon - RM.

 

Ashok.

[PiqueABoo]

+ I hope, the cost of properly testing everthing works afterwards, dns, dcdiag, netdiag, ntds and so on and so forth.

 

I migrated a W2K FRS "by hand" a few months ago... backed up, set up a new hardware profile on the original in which I disabled all but basic h/w.. imaged it to new hardware with an old Ghost.. put new mass storage driver in place to boot it (via bartPE, but I strongly suspect an NT boot floppy with the right ntbootdd.sys would work).. installed other new h/w drivers, zapped original h/w profile & now redundant drivers... done. Spent a lot more time waiting for the imaging to happen than the rest put together.

 

The only serious stability concern is whether the brand new h/w and drivers are buggy - it's the same concern whether you've migrated or installed a fresh OS.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, above scenario was to/from a multiprocessor system so I didn't need to worry about different HALs.

[Dos_Box]

If its just an AD\DNS backup transfer you need why not simply create a virtual machine\server and make it a DC. Transfer all of the FSMO roles to it then install your new servers, promote them and transfer the roles. I've done this several times with no issues.

Microsofts Virtual PC is free y'know.

[spc-rocket]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for more input, unfortunately RM doesn't support moving to virual machine and moving the FSMO roles as it voids our support contract. Bummer!

 

I know lots of people have suggested ghost the DC and then retore it to different hardware let it boot up and also BSOD. Then use the windows server CD to do an repair to install the mass storage drivers. I'm not sure about this and the last thing i want to do is to mess everything up. I don't mind paying £300 for specialist software i.e. Acronis True image or Symantec BackupExec System Recovery (prev. Symantec LiveState) to do this.

 

Apparently i'm told that RM uses the BackupExec System Recovery (LiveState) to the migrations so here's me thinking why should i pay them £2600 per server to do the migrations when i can do it.

 

Ashok.

[Dos_Box]

Thanks for more input, unfortunately RM doesn't support moving to virual machine and moving the FSMO roles as it voids our support contract. Bummer!

 

Thats not a support contract, thats no support at all!

[Guest Guest]

lmao and people wonder why alot of us hate RM. If it wasnt for them you could have both servers done in half a day, armed with nothing more but the server cd. And thats without any downtime.

[PiqueABoo]

RM doesn't support moving to virual machine and moving the FSMO roles as it voids our support contract

 

::reality check::

 

1) Well it's not just a DNS xfer. If you want a comparison, it's closer to say moving Exchange to a different domain (which MS don't support). RM add custom properties etc. to AD, some of that stuff tells their apps where to find things and you'd need to know about all the ones pointing to the old box and be capable of modifying them to point elsewhere.

 

2) RM are probably not prepared to spend N hours at a cost of £X to clear up the mess people are likely to make playing with FSMOs (you may be perfect, but I see a lot of Windows networks that have been messed up by ambitious school techs). Simple economics.

 

As a slight aside, what's the point of a MITM VM in the entirely native Windows scenario? Why not just build your new physical DC and xfer the roles directly?

[SpuffMonkey]

You could have a look at this...

 

http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/316

[djm968]

I would look at this as an opportunity to migrate away from RM. You could build the new DC’s and create a new domain keeping the RM servers running as a co-existing domain. This way you don’t have to touch the RM servers and hence will not invalidate any support contracts with RM

 

I have done this for a few RM connect 2.4 customers, using trust relationships between the two domains. This gives you plenty of time to design and test AD and the GPO’s

[PiqueABoo]

You could have a look at..

 

..the VMWare Converter beta (not that I think the VMs are useful here). This is the successor to P2V & Importer, the "Starter Edition" does plenty and will be free.

 

I have done this for a few RM connect 2.4 customers

 

W2K=CC3=significant investment in existing AD.

 

I don't see why de-CC3ing a domain would be that difficult. Building all your workstations into a new OU structure (with RIS or whatever) and sorting out your GPOs are the painful bits.

[spc-rocket]

Hi Guys,

 

Many thanks for the updates, yes its true that RM is a pain sometimes and we are looking at moving away from them. Give the time considerations at this point we can't do this just yet.

 

The strange thing is that RM has a engineer that comes out and does the same thing as you - images the server (i think sector by sector) and restores the image to another hardware be it different. Now there are tools that will do this i.e. Acronis True Image and Symantec BackupExec System Recovery. I've been talking to our LEA team about this and they are working with RM to get trained so they can do the migrations. Now their cost is no where near the cost of what RM are quoting me on.

 

I also suggested to them that if they purchase one of the above products and try it they can use the software and do the migrations at various schools and recoup the license once the migration is completed.

 

Looking at all the docs of the two products it does state that it can be used for hardware migrations and does support DC migration (moving to different hardware) as well which is why it shouldn't be that difficult to do this.

 

I do appreciate the different ways to do this and as someone else said in another post that this forum provides many answers and not just one.

 

Good stuff!

 

Ashok.

[PiqueABoo]

they are working with RM to get trained so they can do the migrations

 

Intruiging.. would that be because they think they need the training[1] or does the person doing it have to be formally trained by RM so you don't break the support contract?

 

It's not rocket-science. Best training is to just research and do it on a "lab bench" a couple of times (start with the manual methods, so you understand and have a better chance of fixing anything that goes wrong with Acronis|whatever).

[spc-rocket]

Hi,

 

I think its because so they don't break the contract more than anything else. These guys are pretty cleaver but they need to get trained up with RM way of doing things that all. Daft but there you go.

 

Ash.