An iPod for each pupil

[Guest Guest]

The emphasis from the school was a small device, not to make them targets of crime I personally think this should be any schools primary concern

 

Well thats fair enough and is subjective so depending how you look at it...;

 

is it better to have a small device in your pocket, or a slightly larger one tucked away in your bag?

 

Its soon going to get around that the kids from such and such a school carry them round in their pockets...

 

And lets remember that iPods pretty much reinvented the term "mugging"

[tmcd35]

I think Webmans critisms are correct and should be addressed. I can see you are not against the idea per se, just looking at the pratical implementation side of things. I agree, any school looking to implement this sort of scheme does need to look long and hard at some of these security concerns.

 

@J17Sparkey, I think your missing the neche that the device is filling. I agree that a small netbook in the school bag could do all this. But there is something to be said about 'instant on' and 'easily accessable'. Which the iPhone Touch delivers. Want to see your time table? Why wait for Linux to boot?

 

Directive - as anyone got anymore info, a link or some such, so I can read up on this. Tbh, haven't heard anything about it here in the sticks

 

Nokia N810 - What makes it diffent to using an iPod, other than it's not Apple? I'm not trying to be pro-Apple here. I think a good solution could be based on either. Just curious as to why this was picked as a better alternative?

[Guest Guest]

@J17Sparkey, I think your missing the neche that the device is filling. I agree that a small netbook in the school bag could do all this. But there is something to be said about 'instant on' and 'easily accessable'. Which the iPhone Touch delivers. Want to see your time table? Why wait for Linux to boot?

 

Good point, and a good reason why its better than a netbook.

 

 

 

On a side note, i wonder if this school has got any kids on the "laptops for pupils" scheme. We do, whihch sort of negates the mugging issue

[fayfrancis]

I think Webmans critisms are correct and should be addressed. I can see you are not against the idea per se, just looking at the pratical implementation side of things. I agree, any school looking to implement this sort of scheme does need to look long and hard at some of these security concerns.

 

@J17Sparkey, I think your missing the neche that the device is filling. I agree that a small netbook in the school bag could do all this. But there is something to be said about 'instant on' and 'easily accessable'. Which the iPhone Touch delivers. Want to see your time table? Why wait for Linux to boot?

 

Directive - as anyone got anymore info, a link or some such, so I can read up on this. Tbh, haven't heard anything about it here in the sticks

 

Nokia N810 - What makes it diffent to using an iPod, other than it's not Apple? I'm not trying to be pro-Apple here. I think a good solution could be based on either. Just curious as to why this was picked as a better alternative?

 

 

An iPod for each pupil at Essa Academy will help school to stay in touch - Times Online

[tmcd35]

An iPod for each pupil at Essa Academy will help school to stay in touch - Times Online

 

Thanx - just got a 404 error

 

Was that more info on the directive - or more info on the schools ipod scheme?

[broc]

As network manager, I think I would be reasonably happy if someone came along to my school & handed out iPods.... as long as they supplemented the existing desktop/notebook provision.

 

I am not sure our teachers would be quite so happy at the distraction they would cause....

[fayfrancis]

Thanx - just got a 404 error

 

Was that more info on the directive - or more info on the schools ipod scheme?

 

it was on the schools ipod scheme,

 

the directives I was told about by a learning grid - Id have to check some notes but if I remember correctly the deadline was 2012 but thats just off the top of my head, I cant find it online ill ask the learning grid as I may be wrong about the date.

[somabc]

Ok,

 

I think ive given a clear picture of what the school has as a solution -

 

so I would like to invite you to offer your ideas of a better solution - ?????

 

the brief was as follows, want to provide each student with a device that can assist them curriculum wise in and out of school, that can provide a daily planner, that is good for media, that is very small and cannot be seen visibly when travelling ie no laptop size devices to make children a target, that has a long battery life, that can engage the students in learning, that can utilise voting software, provide email functionality, is good on the application side. Any ideas?

 

Id be interested?

 

(also please remember there is a directive which has a deadline for each student to have a device so all schools should have this on their to do list)

 

The brief is idiotic. You have the Academy and all the extra money because the old school was failing and the pupils were not achieving. This brief is unlikely to improve that situation. Instead the money would be better spent hiring excellent teachers who could teach the children in smaller groups and the school could also work with mentoring families in the community. The government could also try alleviating poverty because that is the real reason for poor performance at school.

Edited November 17, 2009 by somabc

[Ex-MGSTech]

the devices are much less cost than a full laptop which under directives soon to be deadline each student must have a device

 

I'd also be interested in more info on all students requiring ba device by 2012?

 

Thanks

[fayfrancis]

The brief is idiotic. You have the Academy and all the extra money because the old school was failing and the pupils were not achieving. This brief is unlikely to improve that situation. Instead the money would be better spent hiring excellent teachers who could teach the children in smaller groups and the school could also work with mentoring families in the community. The government could also try alleviating poverty because that is the real reason for poor performance at school.

 

just a question, have you asked the school if they have done this also? I think maybe anyone with questions of this nature should research the school prior to comment and if anything of that nature is unanswered then you are able to direct your questions at the school. they do have meetings where other schools can attend, I am unsure as to the invitation side of this but certainly Im sure there would be no harm in asking.

 

I believe that the grades improved by 50% this yr

 

(not the school or my employers opinion)

[fayfrancis]

I'd also be interested in more info on all students requiring ba device by 2012?

 

Thanks

 

I am struggling to find it online, but the learning grid did say it had a name. What I will do is find some information on this and definately get back to you on it.

[julianc]

We've put 30 iPod Touches into a primary classroom in Oldham (back in September) to see what would happen.

 

FriezlandiPodProjectLive

 

After a week, the staff were talking about using their whole ICT spend for the year on Touches.

 

The 30 Touches are running through the LA filtering system, the pupils are as safe as they would be on a computer.

 

Staff are searching the iTunes store for apps, although they find Youtube a better place to find info about apps and of course demo's. The Apps and ease of access onto the school wireless system are at the kids and staff like. No booting up computers, wheeling laptop trolleys, migrating to the IT suite.

 

Sure, you are not going to edit a video or design a poster in a3 format on a mobile device, but for easy/unobtrusive access to data it is very compelling.

 

There will always be some animosity to Apple. As very pro Apple Educator and ex Apple Employee, I'm fully conversant with all the arguments for and against.

 

However, there are over 100,000 apps many of them are free or 59p. One purchase can be installed onto multiple devices. It is incredibly cost effective.

 

The key player here (and increasingly so) is the end user. People buy and use the Touch and iPhone because it is a good user experience. 3,4 of the pupils parents have now gone out and bought Touches for their kids. Over Christmas my guess is that this will increase.

 

Good user experiences promote an appetite for learning; this has to be a good thing.

 

Julian

[Mr.Ben]

Here's another couple of practical questions...

 

I've never got my iPod Touch to last more than 4 hours surfing on the internet, even when it was brand new, let alone watching video (about 2.5 Hours)

 

Where are they being charged up, or are they just all bricked in the afternoon.

 

I'd hope that applications are all managed and personally would want to see the app store removed.

 

The restrictions placed on iPods mean that they can only be associated with one itunes library - is this a centralised school library? - therefore the kids would be unable to add there own music, a plus in my opinion as it would stop distractions.

 

I do worry about the cost of this, not this year but in future years when 1200+ iPods need replacing - who is going to find the money to do that?

 

I think that the ability to learn this way is phenomonal - I use my touch around school all the time to check emails, find info I need when I can't be bothered to walk back to the server room, but I still think that at the moment the technology can still be limited, battery life needs to be improved or made easily replaceable.

 

The idea's great, and it will no doubt improve learning and give another learning style for learners who may not engage in other ways, and I'm an advocate of giving ownership to pupils (most of the time things are looked after better than shared resources), but I just think the choice of devices available don't have the spec to function in the ways that kids and staff want to use them in today's classroom.

 

Just a final note here, the mobile device argument has come up time and again in the last 4 years. Of those schools who did actually go for it (be it Laptop or handheld device), how many still call it a success two or three years after when the things begin to need to be replaced?

[Ex-MGSTech]

This makes an interesting read:Mobile learning warning for schools - M-Posium

 

However I'm not sure I like being called the “Innovation Prevention Departments”, ie IT services!

 

 

For me it's about sustainability, Ipod Touches would not last five minutes here and replacing them would be financially impossible, also its well documented that unless the establishment transfers ownership, it retains a responsibiliity for what students do on their devices out of school, how would the "Innovation Prevention Departments" police that?

 

Parents expectations are higher of a school than anywhere else, who's "Fault" is it when little johnny is mugged for his Ipod, the school for giving it to him without a bodyguard?

 

All opinions are my own....

 

 

Steve

[broc]

I suppose if you have £500,000 to spend on technology in 2009 with the prospect of another £1.3m on ICT in 2011 with BSF you can afford to splash the cash....

 

I am sure my school librarian colleague would love to have £100,000 for new books too.

[Ex-MGSTech]

One purchase can be installed onto multiple devices. It is incredibly cost effective.

 

Julian

 

Not sure that's how apple would see it, they'd want one purchase per device surely?

[Ric_]

I understand the point regarding the choice of device. If we ignore that the device is an iPod for a minute, it would still be a good opportunity. Perhaps the students should all have been given a Nokia web tablet device instead... or even a 'basic' PDA (if such a thing still exists). The concept still stands... allowing access to online content anywhere, anytime and with an incredibly portable device.

 

Back to the policing problems raised:

1. Swapping digital content of a questionable nature - can they not do that now with their own devices? You could easily impart punishments through random content checks.

2. Longevity of the devices - perhaps they were purchased under a leasing scheme that replaces the device every couple of years.

3. Device failure/damage/loss/forgetfullness of kids - if you buy a couple of hundred iPods, you would probably get a couple of spare ones that could be loaned out (along with a punishment if they have lost/forgotten/etc.).

[russdev]

The thing is at moment coming up with arguments why should not be using it sorry all those can be got around. On one had people don't line being called

'Innovation Prevention Departments'

but on other hand instead of looking at it from lets use them and work around the issues they bring up...

 

I have yet to see one argument here that would stop them being used...

 

But I better bow out before this post starts as a rant

 

Russ

[tmcd35]

I've never got my iPod Touch to last more than 4 hours surfing on the internet, even when it was brand new, let alone watching video (about 2.5 Hours)

 

But it's just not that type of device. Seriously - 4 continuous hours surfing the net? I'd be in front of a PC. 2.5hr video - that's what the projectors are for! Seriously I think we are talking about a total of what 20minutes use in any given hour. Checking timetables, updating calendars, viewing a 5min youtube video, voting, quick (less than 30sec) wikipedia search, etc, etc.

 

It's the quick small uses of computers that are handy if you have instant access to the tech. Not prolonged computer use where an actual IT suite would be booked.

 

Where are they being charged up, or are they just all bricked in the afternoon.

Overnight? USB charding stations must be easier to catter for than banks of laptop chargers?

 

I do worry about the cost of this, not this year but in future years when 1200+ iPods need replacing - who is going to find the money to do that?

I thought about this when I first read the thread. It'd cost a ballpark £200k to set up year 1 here. Followed by, I'd guess, £30k per year for new intakes. That's alot.

 

I think that the ability to learn this way is phenomonal - I use my touch around school all the time to check emails, find info I need when I can't be bothered to walk back to the server room,.

I agree. I used to have a Palm III when I was a saleman. The whole handheld thing revolutionised the way I worked. Since getting the iPhone it's changed how I do a lot of things. The whole e-mail, internet, wikipedia app, facebook app side of things as been truley useful - instant access in my pocket. Then there are the other apps - guitar tuner and chord diagrams, wifi signal strength, IP address space calculator, etc, etc, etc.

Edited November 17, 2009 by tmcd35

[neon]

nice try there Neon.....1 big flaw there...you can make phone calls with the nokia. This is not wanted in the brief for the students -iTouch still the only device suitable

 

You can only make calls using skype... its not a handset its a internet tablet = as good, if not better for the job as itouch, just cheaper

Edited November 17, 2009 by neon

[srochford]

I need convincing;

 

 

So do I and I'd hope that at least part of this is an at least half decent research project with some kind of measurement of outcomes so at the end of it we can either say "told you so, complete waste of time, money etc" or "wow, who would have ever thought you'd get those benefits!"

 

It is a lot of money that's being spent but then so are some of the other projects that have happened in schools; if we don't spend money, we can never find out if the idea is good

 

Anyone else remember the Micros in Schools programme back in 1981 - this put a single computer in every school. Not sure if all schools got an RML 380z but many did. I'm not sure of the price now but it was very expensive (I've got an idea of about £2,000 which would have been nearly half my salary at the time!) Spending that huge amount of money kick started the whole use of computers in school and has brought benefits (and problems, obviously).

 

I certainly don't think we should go out and buy iPods for every pupil in every school but I think it's worth trying in a small number of them.

[fayfrancis]

The thing is at moment coming up with arguments why should not be using it sorry all those can be got around. On one had people don't line being called but on other hand instead of looking at it from lets use them and work around the issues they bring up...

 

I have yet to see one argument here that would stop them being used...

 

But I better bow out before this post starts as a rant

 

Russ

 

 

thanks -

 

what i would like to add as no rant,

 

Is that "my impression" of working with the staff on the earlier stages of this project is that this School appears to care very much about its students, their learning and the image of the School. The students always seemed very well mannered. I am very proud to have worked with such a hard working team of staff and to have achieved what was achieved for the school. I think the general opinion was that we believed it could all come together but the fact that there was development from Apple partners and attention from Apple themselves was an unbelievable achievement in itself let alone the fact that itunes have made some contribution. I am very proud to have worked on this project and I think it shows that if a school has direction and a vision it can be achieved. I would like to congratulate them on their success.

[broc]

We can argue until the cows come home about how useful/practical/sustainable any hand-held device is, the fact remains that for the majority of schools this idea is unattainable and unsustainable for economic reasons.

 

Don't look at BSF as being answer either; for most schools BSF means pay more & get less, so few if any BSF schools will be able to afford to maintain their current equipment levels, never mind supplement them with handheld devices on a scale such as this.

 

I am sure there will be some lessons learned from this sort of deployment, as there were when tablets were deployed at another academy, and retina scanning biometrics was tried at a school near me

Edited November 17, 2009 by broc

[siuko]

In the end, even though most on here are tech savvy people who like to push technology when given the budget, shouldnt we be teaching students to think for themselves and be able to work things out for the themselves?

 

I'm certain when I was being taught I didnt have the internet with me all day to help me!! I think I had to remember things in my so called brain and try to work things out using common sense etc.

 

What exactly is it that these devices provide that a strong basic grounding in normal subjects cannot provide?

 

What happens to this stream of information if say:

 

1) The device breaks?

2) The internet connection drops?

3) The network connection drops?

4) The place they go on to work in doesnt have devices to provide them with information?

 

Will these students be able to think for themselves?

[tmcd35]

We can argue until the cows come home about how useful/practical/sustainable any hand-held device is, the fact remains that for the majority of schools this idea is unattainable and unsustainable for economic reasons.

 

 

But is that a reason to shot down a good idea. I can say for sure that my school cannot afford this. But I know have some ideas locked away in the back of my mind. Who knows something here may be a viable solution to a future problem. I think the idea is worth exploring.

 

Also, if there ever came a requirement for every pupil to have one device (is it really 2012? links?) then maybe it's better we discussed some solutions now as professionals and preparing ourselfs than waiting untill the requirement hits our desks and worring about it then.