Microsoft licensing: advice needed please.

[CtrlAltDel]

Hi guys, very interesting forums you have here.

 

i have some advice to ask so I thought now would be a good time for my first post.

 

Basically keeping it short, I've taken over the IT support role in a middle school.

I've been clearing up various mess, mistakes and incomplete jobs from my predecessor. (a long old list.....)

One of the burning issues is software licensing.

We have about 160 machines including staff laptops about the place and most of them appear to be missing licenses for microsoft products running on them.

I have replaced quite a few computers with newer units that at least have a windows license but there is no evidence that any office installation is properly licensed.

Also there is only one copy of Server 2003 to the 3 Servers that are running.

 

Given the fact that the school is running with a mix of new and old machines I have standardised everything to run Windows XP SP3 with Office 2003 Pro SP3.

 

I have tallied up what I need to get everything legal:

 

84 Windows XP Professional

156 Office 2003 Professional

2 Windows server 2003

CAL's??

 

Is there any cost effective way to cover our use of the existing MS products?

So far I have only found software distributors that sell discounted products on a per item basis. I have found Windows XP OEM packages for about £85 each and office 2007 enterprise at £35 each but it still seems quite expensive given the amount I have to buy.

I dont think vista or windows 7 is a way forward yet given the fact some of our machines are up to 5 years old.

Running office 2007 should be ok though.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited September 28, 2009 by CtrlAltDel

[enjay]

Depending on how you bought them, your Windows installs may well be licensed already. Best to check with your supplier (if you can work out who that was, of course!) and see what they say.

 

Remember that Office licences are backwards-compatible, so you can continue to run Office 2003 on the 2007 licences which you buy. Sounds like you have enough to worry about playing 'catch-up and rectify' without causing yourself the added hassle of rolling out a new Office release.

[CtrlAltDel]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have checked, and the only physical proof of a licence is the windows COA stamped on the side of the newer computers in the building. It is possible that there was a microsoft agreement at some stage,maybe it expired and was not renewed. There is no proof of anything that currently covers our use of the software.

We also don't have any genuine install media for the packages that are in use.

 

I'm not sure if its better to get a quote on a microsoft agreement that allows us to buy the bulk licenses or just buy the packages from a third party.

 

I'm keen to sort out as much of this as the budget will allow, even if I can't get it all done in one go, it at least shows some willing on the matter.

[enjay]

I'm not sure if its better to get a quote on a microsoft agreement that allows us to buy the bulk licenses or just buy the packages from a third party.

 

Investigate both, and see which looks most appealing/appropriate.

 

I'm keen to sort out as much of this as the budget will allow, even if I can't get it all done in one go, it at least shows some willing on the matter.

 

If you don't think you can afford to do it all in one go, write to SLT explaining the situation and the potential implications of being under-licensed. This covers you should the brown stuff start flying, and just might get the money made available to you.

 

Alternatively - and I would probably recommend doing this anyway - ask for a meeting in which you will discuss a 3 or 5 year plan, listing everything which you feel needs doing (and spending). Include your suggestion for priorities, get their opinions and then get their promise on the funding for it.

[Ric_]

@CtrlAltDel: The most cost effective way to get licensed up in the short term is a Schools Agreement. Over 3 years (assuming you don't upgrade any software) SELECT licensing would be cheaper but ther is a much higher initial outlay.

 

You should also consider Software Assurance. Schools Agreement comes with this by default and you will need it if you want to run Windows 7 Enterprise or Office Enterprise. Windows 7 Enterprise is the one with things like Bitlocker and other great technologies!!!

 

The one problem you do have is getting your machines licensed if they don't have COAs on them.

[ftechnical]

Where are you based fella ?

[Mr.Ben]

I'm stuck on Select Licensing for the School here.

 

I had exactly the same issue with 120 machines when I started here, Only 38 XP Licenses and 19 Office Licences!

 

I looked at schools agreements, but I've been quoted around the £4,000 p.a.

 

The 12k over three years is more than the £9k that I would spend buying both OS Upgrades and Office Updates. Being as I don't intend to move from Office 2007 until at least 2011 its not cost effective at all.

 

The thing I missout on are Software assurance, especially for servers!

 

 

Remember, having an agreement means you still need to own a copy of the OS to start with, it only coves upgrades (I far as I know!)

[featured_spectre]

We got an agreement when I started as the previous tech was spending massive amounts on OEM versions for the PC's and Laptops. I came in, got refunds on all the OEMs, took out a Schools Licence Agreement and upgraded everything. Saving us around £3000 per year!

 

Schools licence would be more effective, and I would go for 160 Windows and Office licences (to cover you completely), 2 server licences and 160 CALs for your servers (to be on the safe side!).

[Mr.Ben]

I think it all depends how much work you take on.

 

I generally plan around a 5 year cycle for O/S's before retiring them now - The thing is if you take out an agreement a) you don't own the software and b) it could take Microsoft another 8 years to bring out a decent O/S that everyone uses in Schools.

 

As you'll be paying around £30 per machine per year (£4,800) if you don't upgrade over a four year period that'll cost you almost £20k when you could have spent £10k on select licensing and been in the same position. The outlay is over twice as much to start, but thats 20 computers replaced!

[Mr.Ben]

Just make sure that once you've bought licensing for the O/S you purchase all of your PC's without O/S's!

[Ric_]

Just make sure that once you've bought licensing for the O/S you purchase all of your PC's without O/S's!

 

Your PC must always have an OS license. This is usually an OEM license but can be the cheapest license available.

 

5 years of Software Assurance is not cheap and you will need it to use Windows 7 to its fullest - the new Bitlocker and BitlockerToGo features are worth it in themselves as timesavers when it comes to encrypting data!

 

The only way to get the Enterprise features without SA is to buy Windows 7 Ultimate which is almost £100 more per OEM license!

[DMcCoy]

Just make sure that once you've bought licensing for the O/S you purchase all of your PC's without O/S's!

 

WITH OS surely?

 

The issue is that an VL scheme at the moment isn't going to cover a machine without OS. If they aew self built machines then I guess you could still get OEM windows licenses, if they aren't then FPP may be the only legitimate way (and very expensive too). Office and the server products would be fine under VL, just not desktop OS.

[enjay]

it could take Microsoft another 8 years to bring out a decent O/S that everyone uses in Schools.

 

That's the catch isn't it. No OS upgrade since 2001 and not much movement in Office either, so someone who bought an SA would be worse off compared to those (us included) who bought those outright.

 

That said, if MS release schedules over the next few years go as suggested, then a Schools Agreement would be a good purchase, and better than paying in full for Offices 2007 and 2010 (and 2012 isn't it?) and Windows Vista, 7 and 8. Only time will tell which course of action is actually the best, of course, which is a bit pants really!

[ICT_GUY]

We were in a similar position, its not easy but when you point out to the SMT that you or they will be looking at jail time possibly they tend to find the money from somewhere.

 

Office is only around £35 per licence XP around £30.

[CtrlAltDel]

Thank you all for your useful replies.

 

i'm based on the Isle of Wight.

 

Glad i'm not the only one to have had to overcome this issue.

Sounds like buying the XP OS licenses outright is a good idea, while perhaps having the office licenses subscription based?

Can that be done?

 

I'll also need to add in the cost of the bulk CAL's and server software licenses. Would that be subscription or bought outright?

 

Also does anyone recommend any particular microsoft resellers?

 

much appreciated.

 

thanks again.

[Mr.Ben]

WITH OS surely?

 

The issue is that an VL scheme at the moment isn't going to cover a machine without OS. If they aew self built machines then I guess you could still get OEM windows licenses, if they aren't then FPP may be the only legitimate way (and very expensive too). Office and the server products would be fine under VL, just not desktop OS.

 

What I've done is basically purchased 120 XP Licences outright on select VL. That's the total amount of machines that I have in the School. When one machine is replaced, I don't need to buy OEM licensing with the machines, It's only coming to fruition now, over the last year we have had to replace 40 machines, and I've saved by not having to get OEM Licensing.

[Mr.Ben]

CtrlAltDelete,

 

As far as I know, the Subscription model only has a 'Desktop' option that includes Client O/S and Office. You can't separate them :-(

 

My ethic for my Network is that every user should see excatly the same wherever they log in, and that stabilty of the OS and software is paramount to staff actually using it. If I change things every 18 months Staff are going to be put off of IT. The change to W7 (in the summer) is going to create a huge need for Staff training as most of them have only ever used XP.

 

So that means unless there is a very, very valid reason to upgrade clients and office should not change for 4 years after rollout. Therefore regardless of the change in O/S's, over 4 years I make a saving. Yes I won't have bitlocker or SA :-(, But i'll find and implement FOSS solutions to my worldly woes.

 

Obviously with XP we have exceeded this and I Upgraded office to 2k7, But since 2001 the school (should have - before my time) spent approx 4k on XP, 4.2k on Office 2003 and 4.2k on Office 2007.

 

I don't see how the school can afford a subscription until Microsoft make there terms more acceptable for smaller schools - I have a tight budget already!

Edited September 29, 2009 by Mr.Ben

[DMcCoy]

What I've done is basically purchased 120 XP Licences outright on select VL. That's the total amount of machines that I have in the School. When one machine is replaced, I don't need to buy OEM licensing with the machines, It's only coming to fruition now, over the last year we have had to replace 40 machines, and I've saved by not having to get OEM Licensing.

 

All volume Windows Desktop licenses are upgrade licenses only. You must have a base license for the machine that is valid to upgrade from (this includes things like OS X, but not FreeDOS etc).

 

The only way you could move them like that is to at some point buy full package product licenses are £200 or so per machine.

 

There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.

[Ric_]

There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.

 

And the only way to get Windows 7 Enterprise/Ultimate (it's the same thing) is either OEM, Retail or Volume License UPGRADE with Software Assurance.

[Mr.Ben]

All volume Windows Desktop licenses are upgrade licenses only. You must have a base license for the machine that is valid to upgrade from (this includes things like OS X, but not FreeDOS etc).

 

The only way you could move them like that is to at some point buy full package product licenses are £200 or so per machine.

 

There are no full versions of Windows XP/Vista/7 available under any volume license scheme.

 

I'll admit to that - looked into it - assumption is the mother of all f*ckups. Looked back at what I bought though - I'm ok! (phew!).

 

So that does change the game, 120 W7 licenses at the XP price (£115) is £14k.

 

Still, you need an OEM os for agreements to upgrade. - so that's a £30 premium per machine. so, assuming that you have OEM's and Upgrades that's £60 per machine.

 

So my next question, Can XP Home licenses can be upgraded to Pro or anything else?

[SteveMC]

I'm based on the Isle of Wight.

 

Definitely not a million miles away from me then! (DataSwift are in Wootton, so feel free to give us a shout if you need a hand), and DMcCoy is pretty close by too at Medina High School

 

Also does anyone recommend any particular microsoft resellers?

 

We tend to point folks at Ramesys for outright purchases, but if you're going for subscription agreements, you'll probably want to shop around for a good deal - Pugh are used by a few schools on the Island too.

 

Stephen

[enjay]

Also does anyone recommend any particular microsoft resellers?

In my experience, there isn't much to separate them on price (not that I'm suggesting any sort of price-fixing, of course), so go with one you trust and know to provide a good service.

[DMcCoy]

So my next question, Can XP Home licenses can be upgraded to Pro or anything else?

 

With a VL upgrade license, yes. They are a qualifying product. We often get machines in with a base license of home, although sometime it's pro.

 

With something like the schools agreement it's easier, with select and open it's a little more complicated.

 

Do also note that technically VL license cannot be transferred between machines:

 

6. Internal “Reassignment” of Licenses and Software Assurance acquired through Volume Licensing

A “reassignment,” is the internal reallocation of a License from one computer to another, otherwise known

as a transfer. Licenses for Windows Products purchased under a Microsoft Volume Licensing Program

cannot be reassigned from one computer to another. Additionally, upgrades acquired through Software

Assurance may not be reassigned from one computer to another computer. However, during the term of an

Enterprise Enrollment or Enterprise Subscription Enrollment, you may reassign licensed copies of the

Windows XP Professional on replacement computers, provided that the replacement has a “qualifying

operating system” as listed above.

Software Assurance coverage for an underlying Windows Product may be reassigned internally from one

computer to a replacement computer for Select License and Open License, provided that the following two

conditions are met:

· The computer from which the Software Assurance coverage is transferred is restored to the

licensed version of the operating system which was originally licensed prior to the Software

Assurance coverage.

· The replacement computer to which Software Assurance coverage is being reassigned is licensed

to run the most current version of the Windows Product at the time of reassignment (identified in

the Product List as the operating system qualifying for direct enrollment into Software Assurance).

[CtrlAltDel]

It appears to be a perfect example of how microsoft has everyone stitched up with thier software...

It seems that in many scenario's end users will essentially have to purchase the software twice in order to use it in a compliant manner.

 

From what I understand about volume licenses not being transferrable, I take it the license goes in the bin when the computer is recycled. New licenses have to be bought for the new machines even though they may have a valid OEM license that enables you to use your current version of windows.

Correct me if i'm wrong at any stage. I'm just detailing what is being said.

So no volume licensing can be done on machines that arent licensed already. hmm.

Catch twenty-two isnt it?

 

Does select licensing allow the purchase of full license for a machine that doesnt already have a license? also, does office licensing work in the same way or is the license transferrable based on the machine that its installed upon?

 

Whatever the score it, i'll be needing some accurate quotes to get the ball rolling.

 

It seems software licensing isnt as simple as it should be. Too much is open to interpretation, and I've even had to correct some software distributors on the type of licenses they've been trying to sell.

 

On a different note, its nice to see some Isle of Wight locals on here. What a nice day it is outside.

 

Regards.

 

CtrlAltDel

Edited September 29, 2009 by CtrlAltDel

[Ric_]

@CtrlAltDel: From what you have said and the points raised by others, the following appears to be the easiest and probably cheapest way to get up and running:

• Buy 84x Windows (any version as long as it is a retail copy)
  
• Subscribe to a Schools Agreement with 156x Core Desktop CALs and 3x Windows Server Std.