Redirection and SP3, again....

[rocknrollstar]

Sorry about this, but need to bring this up again.

I've got 8 laptops that have XP Pro SP3 on them. They've just been rebuilt using a CD that isn't SP2, but SP3. So they haven't been upgraded from SP2.

 

They are joined to the domain ok, and when a user is logged on, the My Docs folder is redirected ok. Problem is the desktop and startmenu shortcuts aren't.

 

I have a folder on the c drive with the shortcuts, and the GPO says that the Desktop and SM shortcuts are to be redirected to these local folders. I know it works, because it's fine on all the other pcs at school (which are SP3 but upgraded from SP2). The fact that it's a local redirect should make any difference (and yes, the folder does exist on the c drive!).

 

I've tried copying an fdeploy.dll from an SP2 machine, but that doesn't seem to do anything. Just overwrit it in the system32 folder, registered it, rebooted, and no joy. Also, the default profile and roaming profile both have the default empty folders in them.

 

Also tried WindowsXP-KB958058-x86-ENU.exe but no luck.

 

Any thoughts? It is rather an irriating problem. Thanks in advance.

[babagee]

Hi,

We had the same problem here at the school with 120 computers. The resolution I found that worked was, as you have done, copy the fdeploy.dll, but we also had to delete all local profiles on the computer. We used delprof with psexec to delete all the profiles.

Hope this helps as I spent ages with this error and Microsoft is no help either with this problem.

[Cools]

whats server are you running ??

[rocknrollstar]

Cools: The server is Win2k, a little ancient, but seems to work fine. Do you think this might be an issue with the redirection?

[rocknrollstar]

Hi,

We had the same problem here at the school with 120 computers. The resolution I found that worked was, as you have done, copy the fdeploy.dll, but we also had to delete all local profiles on the computer. We used delprof with psexec to delete all the profiles.

 

Thanks babagee. I did as suggested, copy over SP2 fdeploy.dll and used bombprof to delete the local profile (only the teacher account was there). However, it's really the student's roaming mandatory profile that is the issue, so there isn't a local copy of it on the machine, as it gets pulled from the server, and deleted at logoff. Didn't solve anything I'm afraid.

 

Do you think reinstalling SP3 with all upgrades would help?

 

Also, I take it it's ok to just copy and paste the SP2 fdeploy.dll over the SP3 one? Don't need to do anything fancy with it?

 

Thanks.

[babagee]

Hi rocknrollstar,

 

Even with mandatory roaming profiles (we use these also) it does create a profile in the documents and settings folder for every user that logs on to the computer. Can you run rsop.msc from the start\run command when logged into the computer as a student and see if it is picking the group policy up. Clear the event log and reboot the computer first and then check the event log to see what error folder redirection is giving you. Are you getting the error regarding internet explorer rebranding?

Cheers...

[rocknrollstar]

Thanks babagee, I'll give it a go asap. Running rsop is a good idea, with verbose output. Hadn't thought of checking the logs either.

 

Always good to have another avenue to explore. Will report back. Thanks again.

[babagee]

Hi,

 

Make sure the users' profiles' folder structure has a "Desktop", "My Documents", and any other folder that you use redirection with. Even if you create these folder on a temp basis to see if you can get this to work. The fdeploy.dll that comes with SP3 handles folder redirection differently and will error out if the profile does not have those folders.

 

Cheers....

 

Cheers.

[rocknrollstar]

Not sure if it's applicable, but the pupil's profile folder on the server has Start Menu, Desktop and "testaccount's Documents", which was the username I had when creating a minimal default profile. It's not 'My Documents' but I think that MS makes it look like this. Should I rename the folder 'My Documents'?

[Michael]

If I am honest, I am really confused just how exactly you're redirecting your Desktop and Start Menu, but this is how I do it:

 

On your server, create a folder called ICONS, share it as ICONS and give 'Everyone' Read access. Only give Domain Admins Full Control. Within ICONS, create two sub directories; Students and Staff, then within these create Start Menu and Desktop folders. Within Start Menu, create another folder called Programs. When you use Folder Redirection to redirect the Start Menu and Desktop it would read as follows:

 

\\SERVERNAME\ICONS\Students\Start Menu
\\SERVERNAME\ICONS\Students\Desktop

\\SERVERNAME\ICONS\Staff\Start Menu
\\SERVERNAME\ICONS\Staff\Desktop

 

Place any shortcuts in these directories and you can even change them or add to when they're in use. It'll just appear on their desktops instantly. Surely the fundamental problem with your method is hypothetically when you install a new application, do you have to manually update the redirected menus locally on each machine?

[Michael]

Another tip (which is quite useful) is within the Programs folder, create another folder called Startup. Right click it and make it hidden. You can then place shortcuts in here to start applications automatically, or maybe a custom temporary script (whatever you like). Of course making it hidden, the user cannot see it at all

 

The directory structure would read as follows:

 

\\SERVERNAME\ICONS\Students\Start Menu\Programs\Startup

[Michael]

Not sure if it's applicable, but the pupil's profile folder on the server has Start Menu, Desktop and "testaccount's Documents", which was the username I had when creating a minimal default profile. It's not 'My Documents' but I think that MS makes it look like this. Should I rename the folder 'My Documents'?

 

This isn't necessary. You'll probably find My Music and My Pictures are renamed as well. It's just a Windows behaviour and nothing to worry about.

 

As for running Windows 2000 Server, I had the pleasure of working on one today and migrated all FSMO roles to a 2003 Server. 2003 offers quite a few improvements over 2000 and is XP's native server equivalent.

 

If you bought a license from your authority you will get 2008 Server, but for the time being I would still recommend you stick with the more mature 2003. It costs about £60 education price (from Birmingham) so I am sure your school can budget for that. So long as you have a full backup, you "can" do a 2000 to 2003 upgrade directly on top, but of course it is preferable to start fresh on a new server.

[rocknrollstar]

If you bought a license from your authority you will get 2008 Server, but for the time being I would still recommend you stick with the more mature 2003. It costs about £60 education price (from Birmingham) so I am sure your school can budget for that. So long as you have a full backup, you "can" do a 2000 to 2003 upgrade directly on top, but of course it is preferable to start fresh on a new server.

 

But do I not need to buy CALs as well? From what I gather, this is the expensive bit, obviously depending on the number of machines that you have. As you say, a new server would be the preferable way forward.

[rocknrollstar]

If I am honest, I am really confused just how exactly you're redirecting your Desktop and Start Menu

Well, basically I follow a trick posted on edugeek, where the shortcut icons are copied locally to the machine in a startup script using robocopy, so it's quick and easy. The benefit is that if the network goes down, the icons are still there (although it is an issue if the network goes down!). Also, it prevents the start menu or desktop temporarily freezing whilst 32 computers all access the start menu folder on the server. The downside is as you say, that if a new program is to be installed, it requires a reboot for the local icons to be updated, but this doesn't happen that often, and a reguar speedy start menu outweighs the update problem.

 

In the students GP, instead of the star menu & desktop folders redirecting to a folder on the server, they redirect to a folder on the c drive (c:\shortcuts\startmenu).

There is 1 teacher account at our school, with local profiles and a shared My Documents, so a shared start menu or desktop isn't needed.

 

This all works fine on 99% of machines, the issue is where the fresh install of XP Pro SP3 doesn't seem to follow the desktop and start menu redirect (but does follow the my documents redirect).

 

Thank Michael for your continuing help and advice though. If you're going to the edugeek conf, I'll happily paypal you for a drink, as I'm not going!

[Michael]

Thank Michael for your continuing help and advice though. If you're going to the edugeek conf, I'll happily paypal you for a drink, as I'm not going!

 

Thanks most kind, but you've already given me quite a few "thanks" already. Thank you for the appreciation, I just like to help where I can

[babagee]

Hi,

How did you get on with the rsop.msc? Are you still needing help with this or have you fixed it? You can look at these links, they are for win2000 but that does not matter as WinXP is the same anyway. Below is how we do the folder redirection at the school.

 

\\nas\applicationdata\a folder is created in this dir for every user

\\nas\desktop\2006\ all users in the OU 2006 gets this desktop

\\nas\profilesman\ all pupils get this mandatory profile

\\nas\userdirs\schoolyear here ie: 2006\username gets created in this directory ie: joebloggs\and in here it creates a folder called joebloggs documents

 

so it would look like this

\\nas\userdirs\2006\joebloggs\\joebloggs documents\

\\nas\\desktop\2006\

\\nas\ProfilesMan\Pupilsprofile\

\\nas\Applicationdata\2006\joebloggs\

 

 

HOW TO: Assign a Mandatory User Profile in Windows 2000

HOW TO: Assign a Mandatory User Profile in Windows 2000

[rocknrollstar]

babagee: Thanks for the info, very useful. I've been into school this morning, and looked at the problem again. rsop showed that the redirections were in place, I checked that the folders were on the local machine, and they were. However, there were no icons in the local shortcut desktop folder! Previously I had only seen the folder was there and assumed (my mistake!) that the icons would be there. Hence why the My docs redirect was working, but not the others.

 

It seems that the redirect was a pointer to the real problem. The batch file that I run to copy icons from the server to the local machine doesn't seem to work. It's under the Computer section of a gpo, set as a startup script, which I believe has elevated privilages. Simply uses robocopy to grab the icons if changed.

 

The script runs if I log in as admin and then run it from the net logon folder, but not as a startup script.

 

Any ideas? Jist of script is:

 

rem rsync script to update local version of shorcuts folder

 

rem create dir structure

md c:\shortcuts

md c:\shortcuts\studentstartmenu

md c:\shortcuts\studentsdesktop

 

Rem rsync studentstartmenu

\\server\netlogon\robocopy.exe \\server\users\studentstartmenu c:\shortcuts\studentstartmenu /MIR

 

Rem rsync studentstartmenu

\\server\netlogon\robocopy.exe \\server\users\studentsdesktop c:\shortcuts\studentsdesktop /MIR

 

Thanks.

[Michael]

I presume you've moved the new computer objects of the new machines you joined to the domain to the relevant OU? Otherwise the script/policy wouldn't run.

[rocknrollstar]

Just to follow up and close this thread. The issue didn't appear to be the fdeploy.dll SP3 issue, although it could have solved it as I updated this dll before I managed to solve the problem.

 

This issue was with permissions on the folder which was being copied. It was too restrictive, so that the computer account couldn't read it. The batch file that runs on startup copies across files locally (logon utils, startmenu and desktop icons for students), so that at each logon, the script can run quickly and free up network bandwidth. The script checks if a local version of the files are available, and if not, uses the version in the netlogon folder.

 

Obviously the issue remains that updates are only done when a computer restarts, but the next step is to write a script that pushes out changes to pcs that are on. If they are not on, they will get updated on next startup anyway.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help.