Positional Statement: Managed Services Doc Views Wanted

[russdev]

Further to my NAACE post here is a draft document that discusses managed services it will be released as an official edugeek.net release and sent to naace.

 

In it we have tried to get views of all of you across so it includes good, bad and the ugly.

 

If we could have comments areas would like to see improved, changed etc

 

Regards

 

Russell

edugeek.net_positional_statement_managed_services_draft.pdf

[russdev]

i dont know how long with the thread on bsf and this thread not one reply come guys and girls at least give me something to work with even if it is that is spot on or that is way of the mark

 

Russ

[alan-d]

Hang on - only just seen this post

[russdev]

lol

 

 

Russ

[alan-d]

PM'd you

[CyberNerd]

I've enclosed a document entitled 'partnerships, privatisation and the public interest'

It was written by Adelaide university and looks at how PPP was implemented in Britain - as a way for Australia *not* to do it.

It's not specific to schools IT but may give you some Ideas about potential problems that should be raised.

 

From TFA:

 

It beggars belief to imagine that large-scale efficiencies can be found by

privatising social infrastructure such as schools and hospitals. The most likely

prospect is that the services will decline. In the UK, where private financing

has been operating for some years now, the diversion of funds to cover the

additional costs for private hospital development has led to a 30 per cent

reduction in bed capacity and a 20 per cent reduction in hospital staff.52 An

extensive study of the record was also undertaken last year by Tony Blair's

favourite think-tank, the Institute of Public Policy Research. Although heavily

criticised for being a deeply interested attempt to 'talk out' the policy's

opponents, the report nevertheless found that the British results showed no

significant efficiency gains in hospitals and schools.53

partnerships-privatisation-and-public-interest.pdf

[bossman]

Hi Russ

from what iv'e read so far it seems that we are in the proverbial rock and a hard place again but this seems to be common place. What it seems and excuse me if i am wrong (you can tell me if i am) to be saying is that we as a group of very intelligent often misconceived geeks (to term the phrase) are being bullied by the very educational system that we so verily give bloody good service to for the sake of finance. Yet the same educational system finances some of the worst cock ups i have ever seen in regards to wastage of money, because some of the teachers themselves are on extortionate rates of pay for very little effort in teaching and learning framework. i know you seem to think that i have it in for the teaching professionals but honestly i don't, only the ones who in my eyes and probably in a lot of other's eye's are rather incompetent at what they are supposed to be trained in and that is teaching the children. I am sorry if this offends anyone especially good teachers but i feel it has to be said for our, as a group of specialists sake.

[russdev]

I think through you are getting issues mixed up bossman while issue of pay and such are important.

 

We have to understand that in certain places managed service is a benefit (primary schools etc) and to deny that is naive. So what in summary saying is that while managed service can work they have to be implemented in right way so that teaching and learning and ict in schools does not suffer?

 

For us to come out and say that managed services are bad and should be scrapped wont do any good a in current political climate and also it would be picked apart where managed services can work.

 

So if we say that our main concern is that it is any managed services are implemented right and with full school consultant then very may have positive impact but they must be done in correct way.

 

Should say this document is going to be released and also sent to naace who are writing similar kind of document and that will go to likes of dfes, becta and more etc

 

As for ‘having it in’ for teachers no I do think through no matter how many times you “I am sorry if this offends anyone especially good teachers” you are still making sweeping statements. When there is a lot of good teachers out there just like lot of good cleaners, network managers, lsa’s and just as equal as there is bad ones.

 

While not going to take this thread into pay debate teachers got pay deal they currently have aka national agreement due to a lot of fight and that has made it easier for us to argue for national payscale (this is being worked on dfes have got a working party for this support staff and this has been tabled so watch this space.)

 

I imho think you need to step back and stop looking at teachers as they have it all and we don’t but start to work as one to benefit of everybody but that imho as to say.

 

Anyway EduGeek admins don’t mind debate it makes world go around what we have to make sure we don’t go into is constant teacher bashing there are plenty for forums for that. EduGeek has been here to support, promote and lead ICT support in education.

 

@ CyberNerd

 

Nice document will have proper look at it late

[webman]

What possible benefits do these managed services have to your average secondary school? Will the "existing" IT support staff (Network Manager, Technicians) have less control over the network? All the current documents around this seem to say "yes" to this question.

 

There are many issues to consider, some of which include physical problems that must be dealt with by on-site personnell and response times of support tickets if on-site personnell have less control over the network (such as restoring files from backup. How long will this take using a managed service? Days? Weeks? Months?).

 

I believe there is also the hidden agenda (which will probably be denied), that it is a way of saving money by removing the requirement of an on-site Network Manager, and just have a Technician for changing toners etc.

 

These are obviously a bad move as far as customer satisfaction is concerned. But at the end of the day, if it is seen that schools saves money this way, then the people who make the decisions will have their blinkers well and truly on.

 

I think we need to know a lot more though; the who, what, where, why, when and hows of it all.

[alan-d]

You are automatically assuming that all schools already have a dedicated IT technician or team in place or have funding to do so.

 

There are hundreds of schools that rely on local knowledge eg teachers to run the network and don't have funding. BSF could in some circumstances benefit enormously.

 

We all know that a technician based locally is ideal but unforyunately we don't live in an ideal world and we have to make decisions that suit individual circumstances.

[russdev]

What possible benefits do these managed services have to your average secondary school? Will the "existing" IT support staff (Network Manager, Technicians) have less control over the network? All the current documents around this seem to say "yes" to this question.

 

There are many issues to consider, some of which include physical problems that must be dealt with by on-site personnell and response times of support tickets if on-site personnell have less control over the network (such as restoring files from backup. How long will this take using a managed service? Days? Weeks? Months?).

 

I believe there is also the hidden agenda (which will probably be denied), that it is a way of saving money by removing the requirement of an on-site Network Manager, and just have a Technician for changing toners etc.

 

These are obviously a bad move as far as customer satisfaction is concerned. But at the end of the day, if it is seen that schools saves money this way, then the people who make the decisions will have their blinkers well and truly on.

 

I think we need to know a lot more though; the who, what, where, why, when and hows of it all.

 

hence why we said in document that it is important to for managed services to not just look at bottom line and having on site support brings added benafit.

 

Russ

[bossman]

Russ i thank you for your candid and thoughtful reply and i must confess sometimes i do get a little carried away with the pay thing. i do want to say though i am not into teacher bashing or any other bashing for that matter. I do agee whole heartidly with what you are saying and fully concurr that in this economic and political climate the educational system is going through we must tread carefully but also we must not allow the powers that be to walk all over us either.

[wesleyw]

What would stop Edugeek from forming a Centralised Managed Service to schools across LEAs from the membership you have already got? Something like South (London, Essex, etcetera) - Edugeek, Midlands (Birmingham, Walsall, Dudley. Sandwell, etcetera) West and East etcetera? With everything set at an academy or a school with decent techie's then dish out support to each school in the area phasing them in a few every 6 months or so? The network is still there between schools at an LEA level and to be honest across the UK so it would seem possible? A few schools already have setup support for several Sister Secondaries and Primary feeders so why not take it up a scale?

 

Wes

[CyberNerd]

What would stop Edugeek from forming a Centralised Managed Service to schools across LEAs from the membership you have already got?

 

A few million quid - or lack thereof.

The BSF tenders only allow large companies such as Microsoft, Dell, Sun to bid for contract. Nice idea though

[wesleyw]

If an lea had a school supporting every other school in the borough then I think the Head Teachers would kick up a fuss if it was well run with little problems and the BSF wanted to change every thing?

 

Wes

[russdev]

you see problem is bsf comes with massiave amount of private funding??

 

Russell

[kingswood]

Good document Russ. Really. I think there has to be an informed balance in this particular debate between making sure that schools have adequate and sound ICT support (and if they have none then managed services are a God-send), and also providing fast response and personalised support locally (enter technician and NM). Personally I think BSF will fail to deliver centralised support services- and probably in a big way. What it's looking like is a massive knee-jerk reaction to the way ICT in education is heading without any kind of framework of skills or consistent policy. And that ties in with BECTAs framework (FITS), Competencies, and the NAACE discussion nicely doesn't it?

 

All in, I think what you have put forward in the document is a sound appraisal of where we- ICT staff in schools- are at with regards to BSF and offer a balanced look at where BSF or managed services could benefit and where localised support could augment or supplant that. If I'd read it correctly. Which I may not have. It's been a long day at the school and I'm knackered!

 

Paul ;-)

[russdev]

no you read it right...

 

by way must give credit where credit is due i wrote first draft and Tony editted it made it better

 

Russ

[GrumbleDook]

Damn ... and there was me hoping to keep in the background ... now I have to share the blame.

[Guest richard]

Damn ... and there was me hoping to keep in the background ... now I have to share the blame.

 

Hey Tony,

 

You are probably one the most influential and respected @techies@ out there so do go selling yourself short I just wish that there were more like you out their then people would have to sit up at take notice of what we have to say.

[russdev]

Damn ... and there was me hoping to keep in the background ... now I have to share the blame.

 

sorry

 

 

Russ

[broc]

The document is fair; how about some real world examples showing how far some schools have advanced in ICT?

 

I would also send a copy to Partnership for Schools too as they are the people calling the shots regarding Managed Services. I think Partnership for Schools (and their 'backers') do not understand how advanced some schools are. I suspect there is a belief that many/most schools are bumbling along, still running old PCs, down level O/S, lacking vision, innovation etc.

 

But, I believe we have to accept the inevitable, Partnership for Schools will get their own way , and schools will have managed ICT services whether they like it or not.

 

The crucial thing now is to ensure the quality of service for the leading edge schools is not sacrificed for the sake of those schools that have chosen to under-invest in ICT in recent years.

 

Schools need to have a very clear idea of what they want the managed service provider to deliver, and accept that this will come at a price. We need to play our part in BSF, whether we like it or not. We need to help our schools get the best they can from the managed service while at the same time safeguarding our own employment prospects, this may be a tricky course to navigate!