Neverfail, Doubletake, Symantec System Recovery

[wesleyw]

Does anyone have any of these? How is it working out? Does anyone know of an open source alternative to allow me to have virtual backups/copies of the physical servers?

 

 

Wes

[matt40k]

You want to back the whole thing up? OS and all?

 

Is this worth it, just thinking, if the motherboard + hdd dies, = new pc, can you restore onto new hardware. Or you just want to backup user docs etc?

[wesleyw]

More along the line of running the backup on virtual machine until I can either fix the original or replace and rebuild it.

 

 

Wes

[tonyd]

Have you had a look at VMware Converter - Download VMware Converter (Starter Edition) - VMware. I've used it several times to take backups of servers that are being decommisioned.

[wesleyw]

Nope but I will now.

[matt40k]

I've always used Xen for virtual servers, then just done a "tar dump" of the image.

 

I suppose you could just stop the domU copy the virtual hdd, then start it backup. I guess each virtual method would have a way of doing this live.

 

TonyD sounds like a good idea. Cheers for that.

Edited October 13, 2008 by matt40k

[wesleyw]

Well I was looking originally at System Recovery and thought it would be useful to have the actual servers backed up in an up-to-date image then if the physical server dies within a few minutes the virtual system could come online. Later on I could just move to the virtual environment all the time. Is this possible with VMware or Virtual Server? Can an image working on a specific piece of hardware work when on another?

 

 

Wes

 

 

Wes

[matt40k]

What services\programs are we talking about?

[wesleyw]

ADS, DC half the master roles and some specialist software. Got another 4 servers with similarly important roles that could do with a backup.

 

Wes

[matt40k]

Note: vds = virtual server | dedi = physical servers

 

Could setup the master AD as the dedi server, then the vds as the backup.

 

Otherwise your talking clusters\load balancers\££££

 

I know openbsd has carp, which is free, which can do fail overs. This is a big can of worms tho.

 

If the stuff doesn't support mutliple servers\clusters\load balancing whatever you want to call it, use VM converter to copy the server, or create a manual copy, onto the vds, then manually start the vds when the dedi failes. Perhaps looking at Nagios to alert you when\if the real server failes.

 

Does that help? Point you in the right direction? Confuss you?

[IT_PRO]

You will want to have a look at PlateSpin's power convert. PlateSpin Products - PowerConvert

 

In addition to the ones you mentioned, another option include SteelEye's Windows Protection Suite and their Citrix XenServer Protection Suite.

 

FYI...XenServer is much better than VMware Server or MS Virtual Server 2005. I'd look at VMware 3i, MS Hyper-V or Citrix Xen Server as your Hypervisor.

[wesleyw]

Hypervisor? Sorry really new to Virtualisation.

 

 

Wes

[IT_PRO]

Frequently Asked Questions about Virtualization

 

This is a great place to start learning about Virtualization.

[wesleyw]

Now I just need to find a price on all of these

 

What features make XenServer better than VMware and MS Virtual Server?

 

 

Wes

[IT_PRO]

Look at #9, #10 and #11 in the FAQ. Citrix XenServer is a type-1 Hypervisor as described in the FAQ.

 

In general, the performance and management capabilities are much better in a type-1 hypervisor. Cost is becoming less of a factor as all of the major players have a "free" low-end type-1 hypervisors.

 

- VMware 3i

- Microsoft Hyper-V Server

- Citrix XenServer Express

[wesleyw]

So theoretically I could get something up and running hardware independant for free?

 

 

Wes

[IT_PRO]

While there are plenty of "free" (notice the quotes) hypervisors, when you start looking at DR solutions that include real-time data protection or near-time (15 minute snapshots), you are going to have to spend some money. I am currently looking into the following...

 

Created with Camtasia Studio 5

 

It seems as if for the cost of two copies of Windows Server 2008 Enterprise and SteelEye's DataKeeper software, I can get real-time replication and recovery of virtual machines in under 30 seconds. Of course this assumes that you decide to virtualize both your production and DR servers.

[brennels]

Does anyone have any of these? How is it working out? Does anyone know of an open source alternative to allow me to have virtual backups/copies of the physical servers?

 

 

Wes

 

It sounds like you are looking to provide full server recovery including o/s, apps and data and be able to recover to either physical or virtual hardware. I know Double-Take just released livewire which is a many to one full server recovery solution with realtime replication and allows you to restore to dissimilar hardware so actually it is great for hardware upgrades or migrations to new servers. In full disclosure I have been a PM for Double-Take for 7 years and involved with over 1600 installations. Livewire is based on a few core functions that have been inherent to the product for years but it was just re-packaged for a lower cost recovery solution. I think you can download an eval of the product here Livewire for Full Server Data Protection and On-Demand Recovery from Double-Take Software and if not there is at least a few datasheets you can read for more info.

 

Hope this helps, good luck.

[wesleyw]

I've been told about Doubletake and Neverfail as other options to Symantec System Recovery. I'll have a look into the costs for them.

 

 

Wes

[Whyyoublockmyinternets]

Wes, I used to work for a Neverfail reseller...it's a nice idea and works out cheaper then hardware clustering but it's bit of a git to set up. IIRC it relies heavily on iSCSI for one...

[brennels]

I've been told about Doubletake and Neverfail as other options to Symantec System Recovery. I'll have a look into the costs for them.

 

 

Wes

 

Just a few more thoughts that might help. using VSS would allow you to do periodic snapshots (every 6 hours for example) but not sure if the snaps will pick up your system state changes. It might I'm just not sure but do know you can tie in VSS into the livewire product I mentioned for for point in time recovery. I know Acronis also does some system state backups so that might also be an option for you but doesn't provide the asynchronous replication that Double-Take, Steeleye or neverfail does. One other option that may be cost effective for you would be to look at the Double-Take sanFly and netBoot products. sanFly allows you to turn any server into an iSCSI device and netBoot allows you to take images from any server or workstation and then boot that image from an iSCSI device. It is pretty cheap and may fit your needs. I think your decision may depend on your RTO and RPO requirements. The nice thing about asynch products is they continuously replicate changes versus periodic snaps but that may not be important to you so snaps may be ok.

I was at VMworld last month and Symantech had some integration into virtual center for backups if you are looking for something virtual specific but not sure if that applies to physical servers.

 

- take care