Chromebook queries

[iscott]

Just started at a new school back in September - school (secondary) uses Chromebooks so am navigating my way through a number of issues... also some queries. Never encountered chromebooks in a school setting so am working a bit in the dark..

 

1. Multiple times at start of a lesson, 'my Internet is not working' - is this just an issue with too many chromebooks trying to access the same wifi access point (most times it eventually gets sorted, although just before the holidays had one chromebook just flat refusing to access wifi despite multiple 'reboots')

 

2. Given we're a secondary school, would be useful to have access to some 'apps' - thinking things like Thonny for Python coding which has a Linux option... would it be possible to 'enable developer tools' to get the Linux env set up, install Thonny (read somewhere this shows an icon on the 'chromebook' side of things?) then lock-off the developer tools side but leave Thonny working?

 

3. Kind of linked to 'point 2' above - is it possible to have a 'locked down' Linux side as well as the chromebook side? Possible to 'image' a chromebook with a 'standard setup'? School (naturally) is concerned about leaving things 'not totally locked down'.

 

4. Not having a 'right-click' option (coming from a Windows env previously) - is driving me nuts. Short of advising future years to purchase a mouse (chromebooks are parent-purchased at the start of the year), is there another option?

 

Would be good to be in touch with another (ideally secondary school if possible) that has gone down the chromebook route to exchange ideas on what is possible and not possible.

 

School has some (very old) PCs in 'computer labs' but not putting any money in, so desktops are gradually dying + not being replaced so need to look at practical options with the chromebooks to move forward.

 

TIA.

[dmj]

Just started at a new school back in September - school (secondary) uses Chromebooks so am navigating my way through a number of issues... also some queries. Never encountered chromebooks in a school setting so am working a bit in the dark..

 

1. Multiple times at start of a lesson, 'my Internet is not working' - is this just an issue with too many chromebooks trying to access the same wifi access point (most times it eventually gets sorted, although just before the holidays had one chromebook just flat refusing to access wifi despite multiple 'reboots')

 

Almost certainly an infrastructure/wifi issue. I Previously worked in a large secondary with 1:1 chromebooks and this was never an issue for us (we were able to mandate a wifi and ISP renewal prior to getting 1:1).

We'd have a class of 30 cold boot and be online within 30 seconds. Teachers would set this as a 'competition' in class, as an 'on-boarding' exercise and to test things out. FWIW the WiFi comes up before the login session, then quickly re-authenticates to the logged in user.

 

With regards to the isolated machine: Chromebooks are very simple, it takes a few minutes to refresh a Chromebook ( or about 15sec to reset to default). If neither work then delete the users Chrome plugins. If that doesn't solve it then it's a hardware issue. That's basically all you ever need to do with a Chromebook.

 

 

2. Given we're a secondary school, would be useful to have access to some 'apps' - thinking things like Thonny for Python coding which has a Linux option... would it be possible to 'enable developer tools' to get the Linux env set up, install Thonny (read somewhere this shows an icon on the 'chromebook' side of things?) then lock-off the developer tools side but leave Thonny working?

 

3. Kind of linked to 'point 2' above - is it possible to have a 'locked down' Linux side as well as the chromebook side? Possible to 'image' a chromebook with a 'standard setup'? School (naturally) is concerned about leaving things 'not totally locked down'.

 

It's not really viable to give students 'developer access' root on a Chromebook if you also want to manage it. It might possible to setup some sort of hacked environment where you could manage them with puppet/ansible and also have the Chromebook management. I'm a seasoned Linux admin and I wouldn't attempt that. Ultimately, giving root access allows the user to bypass any security you put on the device. At best you'll end up with environment that you can't support and the students will run rings around. You'll loose all the simple management advantages of running ChromeOS.

 

A lot of the apps do have decent web-based alternatives though; for python I'd recommend Jupyterhub which you can host on the cloud yourself and pay per hour.

 

4. Not having a 'right-click' option (coming from a Windows env previously) - is driving me nuts. Short of advising future years to purchase a mouse (chromebooks are parent-purchased at the start of the year), is there another option?

 

Would be good to be in touch with another (ideally secondary school if possible) that has gone down the chromebook route to exchange ideas on what is possible and not possible.

 

School has some (very old) PCs in 'computer labs' but not putting any money in, so desktops are gradually dying + not being replaced so need to look at practical options with the chromebooks to move forward.

 

TIA.

Don't know about the right click - never had an issue.

 

The computer labs: I would be inclined to replace with Raspberry Pi 500's - about £90 each for a decent machine capable of coding, browsing, writing essays etc. These you can manage without giving root access.

[dapaulio]

What WiFi have you got?

What filtering is in place?

Chromebooks up to date?

 

I have a school which I inherited of chromebooks thru Smoothwall originally on unifi which didn’t play that well due to most ap were in fault condition.

 

Replaced with a meraki system and although better I had to update my Chromebooks and the Smoothwall including its policies for it to work properly

[Brax]

Almost certainly an infrastructure/wifi issue. I Previously worked in a large secondary with 1:1 chromebooks and this was never an issue for us (we were able to mandate a wifi and ISP renewal prior to getting 1:1).

We'd have a class of 30 cold boot and be online within 30 seconds. Teachers would set this as a 'competition' in class, as an 'on-boarding' exercise and to test things out. FWIW the WiFi comes up before the login session, then quickly re-authenticates to the logged in user.

 

With regards to the isolated machine: Chromebooks are very simple, it takes a few minutes to refresh a Chromebook ( or about 15sec to reset to default). If neither work then delete the users Chrome plugins. If that doesn't solve it then it's a hardware issue. That's basically all you ever need to do with a Chromebook.

 

 

 

It's not really viable to give students 'developer access' root on a Chromebook if you also want to manage it. It might possible to setup some sort of hacked environment where you could manage them with puppet/ansible and also have the Chromebook management. I'm a seasoned Linux admin and I wouldn't attempt that. Ultimately, giving root access allows the user to bypass any security you put on the device. At best you'll end up with environment that you can't support and the students will run rings around. You'll loose all the simple management advantages of running ChromeOS.

 

A lot of the apps do have decent web-based alternatives though; for python I'd recommend Jupyterhub which you can host on the cloud yourself and pay per hour.

 

 

Don't know about the right click - never had an issue.

 

The computer labs: I would be inclined to replace with Raspberry Pi 500's - about £90 each for a decent machine capable of coding, browsing, writing essays etc. These you can manage without giving root access.

The raspberry pi's look mint. I like the look of the OS as well. And with a browser you'll have access to all the browser google apps.

[rogerdnixon]

1. As other have said - will be something network/filtering related. We have 14000 of them across the Trust and they just connect fine - we are mainly Unifi WiFi - but works fine on Ruckus/Aruba and Extreme - maybe running out of DHCP leases?

2. You enrol devices into management on the admin console and then deploy device and user policies to them. Apps are pushed to users - not devices (unless in looks mode). All the polices you could possibly need are there to lock the devices down as you want and customise the user experience.

3. Linux app I'd stay away from. Could only be used in a 1:1 setting and other than allow/deny access to them thats it. So if you do allow them - they can do anything they like. There are plenty of apps that can be used for pretty much anything - coding - Coding with Chrome, various online tools and Android options.

4. Two finger tap on the trackpad is right click. There are also a wide range of trackpad gestures you can use.

 

Happy to discuss if you want more help or advise.

[dhicks]

is this just an issue with too many chromebooks trying to access the same wifi access point

 

As others have already pointed out, yes, this is probably some kind of network hardware / configuration issue. We have up to around 300 ChromeOS devices in quite a dense setup (5 floors of classrooms crammed into the footprint of two central London townhouses), our current 5-ish-year-old Ubiquiti hardware (about 30 access points accross the building) copes just fine.

 

As this is a system you've inherited, you might want to check up to see when hardware support for any of your devices runs out. Google / Chromebook vendors are pretty good at giving a well-defined support period, generally 7 to 10 years after manufacture, but it's worth keeping track of when hardware is going to need refreshing so it doesn't come as a shock to finance / management.

 

would be useful to have access to some 'apps'

 

If you're using dedicated ChromeOS devices (as opposed to ChromeOS Flex on older x86 devices) you can (I think? Or has that changed?) deploy Android apps. Personally, I'd prefer to keep everything web-based - if you use sites that have a "log in with Google" option, then users log in once to the ChromeOS device and logging in to the website itself should just be seemless.

 

For a "coding" environment, I would set up a remote desktop for those users that required access (although, again, having a dedicated web-based coding environment is probably the best option). If you did want to use Raspberry Pis for that (or Raspberry Pi OS on a x86 server that multiple remote users could log in to), then there's a previous thread about that:

 

https://www.edugeek.net/forums/raspberry-pi-arduino-other-sbcs/240898-rpi-noob-needs-help-connecting-pi-4-windows.html#post2060418

 

Possible to 'image' a chromebook with a 'standard setup'?

 

As already pointed out above, settings / apps / etc are assigned to the user rather than the device. This is something teachers and parents, in particular, sometimes seem to struggle to understand - the settings (and files and so on) follow the user, not the device. ChromeOS devices are pretty much interchangable - if someone looses / breaks their device (or, in the case of one PE teacher, leaves their device on the ground and has it run over by a ride-on lawnmower), they can just log in to another one and everything just carries on. Our main problem with ChromeOS devices is that our pupils have figured this out nicely, meaning that if they've forgotten (i.e. were too lazy) to put their device on charge overnight they just wander in to another classroom and make off with someone else's device. This does work well for filtering - if you have a filtering extension (Smoothwall, Securley, etc) deployed to your pupil's user accounts, that filtering extension will still work if they log in to a non-school managed device at home. Parents would need to check they are logged in with their school account, of course, but it's a nice way of giving parents some way of doing filtering at home.

 

Short of advising future years to purchase a mouse (chromebooks are parent-purchased at the start of the year)

 

I don't much like using a touchpad, if I was a child I'd want to bring my own mouse. We let children bring their own headphones in (which needs a bit of policing, otherwise you end up with some huge gaming headphones cluttering the place up), we might do the same with mice.

 

Would be good to be in touch with another (ideally secondary school if possible) that has gone down the chromebook route to exchange ideas on what is possible and not possible.

 

This forum is generally pretty good if you have a specific question. I work for a private school, we go up to GCSE level, I'm available for a talk if you want.

 

School has some (very old) PCs in 'computer labs'

 

If you haven't looked at it already, ChromeOS Flex can turn an old PC into a ChromeOS device. You can even have them be standard domain-managed devices, but that will cost you a (£30, one-off) license fee.

 

Also, if you haven't already found it, GAM is a very useful tool for Google Workspace (inlcuding ChromeOS) managers:

 

https://github.com/GAM-team/GAM

 

The command-line utility is very handy, and there are a number of scripts around that make use of GAM to do various useful things.

Edited December 30, 2024 by dhicks

[dmj]

With regards to Android apps on Chrome:There's been a lot of rumors recently that Google will merge Chromebooks into Android.

I think this makes a lot of sense: A single ecosystem to manage, easier for Google to compete with ipad. It also opens up the possibility of using a phone in a desktop computer roll if android gains the ability to act as a Chromebook.

[rogerdnixon]

Just to clarify the Android thing, over the next 5 years or so Google is looking to use a common Linux backend for both ChromeOS and Android - rather than two separate ones. There will still be ChromeOS and Android - however, Android apps support on ChromeOS should be better.

[mikes]

We have Chromebooks and the times we had "no Internet" etc upon booting them up, it was due to our wireless AP's - they had been installed with a cat6 cable that really does not do well with kinking - we'd have AP's slow down to 100mbps and flap constantly. Had to replace the cables and they worked fine. Can't answer the other questions sorry - our chromebooks are pretty vanilla as far as setup goes.

[PotNoodleTech]

Were 1:1 chromebooks.

 

1. Your wifi sound like it not up to scratch. You need 1 AP in each classroom on a solid managed WIFI system. Theres literalyl no point in proceeding any further if your WIFI is going to give you continuous problems every day - it will turn teachers and learners right off using the technology if it is not reliable. What wifi do you have? We're Aruba at the mo (through no choice of my own) but also used Cisco and Unifi.

 

2. You already have access to any "app" that is on the internet via web browser, there are plenty of websites. Also you have access to the google play store on chromebooks and there are plenty of apps on that too. Don't be daunted, your users will fly with it - i wouldnt have believed that my art department who have been obsessed with getting apps like photoshop on PCs or Macs for the last 10 years don't care a jot about photoshop now, asked me to remove their PCs so they'd have more room, and are happy as larry just using websites (Photopea) on chromebooks.

 

3. No not really, a chromebook is a chromebook. They are secure, and just work. Trying to dual boot linux on them would totally destroy all the good things about them.

 

4. Theres no right click - but if you press bottom left and bottom right trackpad at the same time (i.e what would have been both buttons on older laptops) you do get a right click with basic options on.

 

Feel free to ask any more Q's if we can help, we will!

Edited January 10, 2025 by PotNoodleTech