Have OFCOM allowed BT to get away with a non-standard Digital Voice technology

[Ditto]

This is spun from the 'Annoying thread'.

 

DECT is a standard that many manufacturers build to. Great.

 

Having just switched to FTTP from BT to Sky, I learn my digital phones won't work with the Sky hub.

The digital voice phone along with associated functionality only works with BT's hub. It's super annoying and going to cost me more money to resolve.

 

Surely, there should be in place a Digital Voice based standard, especially as we'll all have to switch to it in the not too distant future.

 

Thoughts?

[FN-GM]

It’s not really what you asked but I am curious if you can use your own router instead? If not it’s a poor move on their part!

[Norphy]

With BT at least, you can use your own router and connect it to the ONT instead of the Smart Hub. The trouble is, the Smart Hub isn’t just a router, it’s also some kind of pseudo-SIP phone which provides the digital voice functionality that they’re pushing now. The handsets connect to the hub via DECT or something like it and if you use a third party router, you can no longer use Digital Voice.

 

Frankly, my plan is that when I get FTTP, I’m going to get the Internet connection only and use a third party VOIP service like Vonage instead of whatever the Internet provider provides

Edited March 8, 2024 by Norphy

[Ditto]

It’s not really what you asked but I am curious if you can use your own router instead? If not it’s a poor move on their part!

I'm not sure, but if you can, then why couldn't it be the old BT Hub and have that work with my phones! At the end of the day, it's all going down the same fibre optic cable, offering the same internet access. I guess commercial aspects interfere. Just imagine every time you change energy supplier you had to change all your electrical devices and gas boiler! Internet is supposed to be an essential service nowadays and it needs to have compatibility and standards across the board.

[Ditto]

With BT at least, you can use your own router and connect it to the ONT instead of the Smart Hub. The trouble is, the Smart Hub isn’t just a router, it’s also some kind of pseudo-SIP phone which provides the digital voice functionality that they’re pushing now. The handsets connect to the hub via DECT or something like it and if you use a third party router, you can no longer use Digital Voice.

 

Frankly, my plan is that when I get FTTP, I’m going to get the Internet connection only and use a third party VOIP service like Vonage instead of whatever the Internet provider provides

Personally, I'd be happy to loose my landline number, but Mrs Ditto wants to retain it, in truth due to MiL! Does a vonage solution let you keep you 'landline' number?

 

From what I'm reading the BT handsets are connecting to the hub via the WiFi, so WiFi determines the range rather than the DECT bandwidth dedicated to DECT.

 

On an upside, I have now located the old DECT kit - or more truthfully, one of the OH's 'tidying' sessions led them to be somewhere they shouldn't have been and she located them under a pile of other stuff in the utility room. One base station, three satellite phones, one power cable and one phone cable each, all wonderfully plaited together. It took me an age to untangle the first one! Cable management should be added to the national curriculum

[FN-GM]

Just imagine every time you change energy supplier you had to change all your electrical devices and gas boiler! Internet is supposed to be an essential service nowadays and it needs to have compatibility and standards across the board.

 

If you have your own router, you don't change anything - this then fits your analogy. You don't have to change anything, but you're choosing to? Unless I have misunderstood?

Edited March 9, 2024 by FN-GM

[FN-GM]

With BT at least, you can use your own router and connect it to the ONT instead of the Smart Hub. The trouble is, the Smart Hub isn’t just a router, it’s also some kind of pseudo-SIP phone which provides the digital voice functionality that they’re pushing now. The handsets connect to the hub via DECT or something like it and if you use a third party router, you can no longer use Digital Voice.

 

Frankly, my plan is that when I get FTTP, I’m going to get the Internet connection only and use a third party VOIP service like Vonage instead of whatever the Internet provider provides

 

Agreed, that's pretty average. I would just use a standard RJ11 SIP ATA type device and then I can connect anything I like.

[nicholab]

It a good point that a standard SIP solution would allow your choice of router for the broadband. I find that not being able to basic things like change your DNS a pain on BT kit. The other issue being is there is not a straight forward process to migrate your PSTN number from FTTP to SIP whilst still keeping service running. I suppose that is easy to do with ill educated consumers. Most people are clueless with broadband example my parents don’t want to change but they must be on the BT stand rate.

[Ditto]

If you have your own router, you don't change anything - this then fits your analogy. You don't have to change anything, but you're choosing to? Unless I have misunderstood?

Fine for those that have the expertise and there are loads on Edugeek! But I think we need to remember the majority of customers are not that, and are given the internet providers router. What they are not told is all the money they spent on the swanky new phones will become wasted if you switch. Sadly, it sort of has an ESS feel about it!

[Ditto]

Most people are clueless with broadband example my parents don’t want to change but they must be on the BT stand rate.

Likewise with my out-laws - BT and only BT. Drives me insane to see the money wasted as a result.

[FN-GM]

Fine for those that have the expertise and there are loads on Edugeek! But I think we need to remember the majority of customers are not

 

For my experience (in Australia) most people use their own routers and not a provider device. My father in law just switched providers and he is in his 70s. Just changed the username and password on the PPPOE setting and that was it. Might be what is seen as normal in the UK.

[Ditto]

For my experience (in Australia) most people use their own routers and not a provider device. My father in law just switched providers and he is in his 70s. Just changed the username and password on the PPPOE setting and that was it. Might be what is seen as normal in the UK.

 

The article is a couple of years old, https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/03/study-claims-uk-consumers-want-universal-broadband-routers.html.

 

It suggests 87% of respondents (UK) use their ISP's router. But it is really interesting to also see "76% of respondents want a “universal router” (i.e. one that can be used by any ISP) to help cut e-waste". This BT phone saga is only likely to add to the e-waste. After more digging, I am now 90%+ confident the BT phones do in fact use DECT technology. The Smart Hub 2 in fact is both a router/modem and DECT hub. What has completely thrown me is the requirement to use the WPS button to pair up the phones. Apparently BT have doubled up the button for both Wifi pairing and DECT pairing. It saves money I guess!

 

Now as to whether I can connect the phones to my old DECT hub - well, I haven't found a way yet.

[southhamster]

I am concerned with the lack of resilience of DV so something like this phone is interesting. Battery backup phone with 4G backup. Shame it only appears to work with BT/EE as I think a lot of older folks (who me?) would be happy to use something like this, plus you can use it outside with the 4G. However we have poor to non existent mobile signal round here and frequent power cuts so I will have to buy a decent UPS and config. my backup 4G router with the 5m external aerial mast to get any mobile signal. This is all beyond our neighbours, most of whom have never even heard of the PSTN switchoff. As the lessons from the Lancaster and Yorks floods shows https://www.theblackoutreport.co.uk/2019/12/11/lancaster-floods-living-without-electricity/ - sobering reading, once the power is out and the mobile base stations/fibre cabinet UPS' die, FM radio is about the only thing left.

[dmj]

Call me old fashioned, but whats wrong with a mobile phone and a wifi SIP?

[Ditto]

Call me old fashioned, but whats wrong with a mobile phone and a wifi SIP?

 

I won't call you names and personally, I'm driven by function and quality of service. However, this is the reply I get from Mrs Ditto.

 

i) doesn't want to be regarded as permanently contactable on mobile - i.e. her mother uses the landline by default

ii) mobile network is patchy, but I guess that can be overcome by using wifi connection at home - but she hasn't done that in spite of repeated suggestion to do so

iii) there is a desire to keep the landline number - all necessary contacts have that but not mobile

iv) landline is mains connected so doesn't need recharging (although of course being a wireless home phone, it does have batteries).

v) the handset for those long calls is more comfortable sitting on the sofa, sounds if better, clearer and louder.

 

Frankly and personally, I'd be happy with a SIP based solution. I could even live with losing the landline number, but if we can keep it all the better.

 

In truth this should all be straight-forward and easy to do if cross-industry standard was in place. The whole idea of a landline phone contract with a monthly cost for x minutes per month is all a bit daft when I'm on a Gigabit line!

[free780]

Currently paying for a landline which isn’t used: Thanks Vodafone. The In laws use FaceTime and the landline would only get scam calls from India. Worked with an old cordless Phillips phone.

 

There is some weird rule where you can use your own router if you don’t pay for a landline.

 

I only needed to use a Gi.Net travel router as the Vodafone router broke on a weekend.

 

Is it time to move on from landlines for domestic?

[Ditto]

Currently paying for a landline which isn’t used: Thanks Vodafone. The In laws use FaceTime and the landline would only get scam calls from India. Worked with an old cordless Phillips phone.

Is it time to move on from landlines for domestic?

Probably is. I guess all us WhatsApp users rely on our mobiles as a unique id, but email accounts would work equally well as an alternative. But I do think a device that works like current phones would still be wanted. One in the main bedroom (always a worry when it rings but as a parent of teenage kids and elderly parents, needed), maybe one in the kitchen, one in the lounge for leisurely long calls, and one on the home-office for work/domestic admin.

[Ditto]

Note to perhaps conclude: I have managed to get the phones to de-register from the BT hub. You can also reset them. No internet connection is required. Just turn om SmartHub 2 and wait until the pink colour ring. I presume this is effectively in DECT base mode. Then turn it all off and register on you good old DECT base stations. The BT phones register. Functionality is with most options saying "Not supported" - you can't even go into the item called 'DECT setting'. You can't change the phone name. It won't even display the time beyond --/--. The self-proclaimed experts on BT's forums regard this as expected and meeting the DECT (WAP) standard. Even shorter summary from me - That's still PANTS!!!

[mikes]

Call me old fashioned, but whats wrong with a mobile phone and a wifi SIP?

 

honestly all this talk of landline voip reminds me of when they were building steam cars in the 1910's / 1920's (Doble etc)