Power Question

[newpersn]

Hello

 

I will explain this the best i can.

 

The football club that my son goes to has asked me to look at power for them. (They have brought a outside grill to use during big days that needs 2 13amp sockets) They was going to add some sockets near the fuse board and run a couple of extension leads out to the grill and deep fat fryer (maybe) I have said that this might be a bad idea. 3 x 13amp sockets possibly being fed in to 2 double sockets).

 

I have said that they would be better off getting a 32A socket installed (Reading back on this i think i was meant to say 64Amp) and a breakout to allow power to be shared out (Like below)

 

 

Thoughts?

[Aprice]

32A socket would be much better, RCD protection is a must especially if it's going outdoors.

 

The 32A socket also helps you ensure it gets used as designed, rather than in some odd way that hadn't been expected.

[newpersn]

Thanks

But would that cope with 3 x 13 amp devices?

[Chris_Cook]

You would almost certainly need to have a 63a connection for all of that.

 

The equipment will have a data plate with the power rating on it. It will probably be in Watts. Each 13a socket or extension lead can cope with about 3000 Watts but only if it's fully uncoiled. Otherwise it can melt and catch fire.

 

I would question if that grill came wired like that from the manufacturer. It should probably have a single 32a connector on it. I'd want to make sure that someone hasn't just wired 2 13a plugs in parallel as that would be exceedingly dangerous. I don't think I've ever seen a legitimate piece of equipment wired with 2 plugs.

 

This is definitely one of those things where you need to get a qualified electrician to check it all out, as the risk of an electrical fire is quite high. That could get very expensive very quickly.

 

You also need to get the feed to the fuse board checked that it has capacity for another 32/63a.

[PotNoodleTech]

Firstly - you'd want to make sure all of this is IP44 rated at the least so it's splashproof - electrocutions on a rainy day are no fun for anyone!

 

Secondly, when doing the maths don't forget to de-rate for the possibility of things being left on - your 13 amp plug that can theoretically take 3000 watts from a kettle for 2 minutes can only actually take -20% continuous so 10.4 amps or 2300 watts.

 

Thirdly - it's risky taking this on yourself - if anything goes wrong you are the person that will be blamed, er I mean accountable and if you are not a qualified electrician then it won't go well for you in court. My advice would be tell them you are willing to advise to the best of your knowledge but they need to hire an electrician to do this outdoor high power cabling safely.

[Oaktech]

unless there is a very specific set or circumstances (like our oldest school ovens which have 3x 13a plugs - one for each oven and one for the hot lamp) multiple 13a plugs have one name, a widow maker.

 

You need a 63amp socket with individual RCD above it, fed off an apropriate breaker in the nearest board.

 

This all is the realm of a proper sparky. The sort that doesn't get out of bed for small power and lights!

 

Once that is installed you can get various IP rated rubber ducky power breakouts to give you your choice of 32/16/13 sockets with internal RCBO breaker wiring.

[southhamster]

Maybe see if your school's sparkies are willing to look at it (if they are nice people - ours were), as they will be used to catering stuff.

[newpersn]

I will add - I'm not doing this (nor would i want too) but trying to feed back the right information back to the club.

 

I think its something like this

 

https://www.buzzcateringsupplies.com/hurricane-electric-griddle-countertop-100cm-6kw-2x-13a-plug.html

 

So 13amp each side.

 

Take the deep fat fryer out of this. So 2 13A plugs, 32A would be enough?

 

Thanks

[Andrew_C]

your 13 amp plug that can theoretically take 3000 watts from a kettle for 2 minutes can only actually take -20% continuous so 10.4 amps or 2300 watts.

Some good advice - but - this is wrong. A 13A BS1363 plug is designed for 13A. No caveats.

 

A piece of equipment with two 13A plugs, unless feeding entirely separate bits (grill and hotplate say), is what is known as a widowmaker.

 

 

Oh, and by the way, the caterers will have forgotten to tell you about the warming cabinet, two kettles, and their phone chargers.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Andrew_C

[PotNoodleTech]

Some good advice - but - this is wrong. A 13A BS1363 plug is designed for 13A. No caveats.

 

A piece of equipment with two 13A plugs, unless feeding entirely separate bits (grill and hotplate say), is what is known as a widowmaker.

 

 

Oh, and by the way, the caterers will have forgotten to tell you about the warming cabinet, two kettles, and their phone chargers.

 

Well - I am not an electrician but I am sure (not having a copy handy) there are caveats in he regs in the appendix regarding derating for continuous loads - this is why most EV car chargers are actually derated, my Tesla charger with thick cable and a 13 amp plug only ever pulls 10 amps continuous because if you pull 13 amps all day and all night in warm weather with no airflow, you'll likely end up with a melty plug.

 

Either way - when talking about widowmaker if you are talking about wiring up a single appliance to two 13 amp plugs in parallel then yes that is incredibly dangerous as if someone unplugs one plug, not both, then that plug that is in their hand is fully live = zip zap time.

[Andrew_C]

Well - I am not an electrician but I am sure (not having a copy handy) there are caveats in he regs in the appendix regarding derating for continuous loads

Are you mixing up plugging two heavy loads into a twin socket? There can be issues there, though "proper" sockets are rated for 26A.

[PotNoodleTech]

Are you mixing up plugging two heavy loads into a twin socket? There can be issues there, though "proper" sockets are rated for 26A.

 

I thought it applied to any connection to any socket and even the wiring inside the wall and the MCBs in your supply board!

 

I'll bow out now though as I aint expert enough!!!