Wired and wireless network upgrade

[Ditto]

We have had a quote from our IT service provider to upgrade our small network. Interestingly they have provided a quote for a Meraki upgrade and a Ubiquiti based one. It covers both wired and wireless connectivity, but the plan is to continue to use much of the Cat 5e cabling that we have. The costs are significantly different, but from what I've learnt on this forum, with Meraki license fees, it's not entirely a surprise. I suspect the Meraki one is over-quoted, for example I suspect the prices for MR Enterprise license and MR36 AP devices don't include non-profit discounts (we are a registered charity). Ultimately I'm not overly bothered, but the Ubiquiti pricing is a single total and not broken down and it's looks like they have written the quote to steer us in a particular direction. Ubiquiti is likely a decent option for us from what I've read here. We have very limited IT expertise within our organisation and even less networking knowledge. I have basis level of understanding, enough to ask many of the right questions.

 

One area of the quote includes some comments about what expectations we should have for wired, wireless connections. It discuss the impact if we also move to a leased line. One quote they make is All WiFi access will always be slower than wired, up to 50% slower. Is that a reasonable statement?

 

Our charity is sited on one of the schools sites we provide services too. I know some of our cabling goes in to the school building. I have the good fortune of knowing the school trust network manager from a previous job I had, so I'm going to be angling for some pro-bono support, but I know I will get some good pointers here!

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ditto

[hallb15]

There's so many variables to consider, it's hard to give you specific advice.

What sort of numbers of clients are you talking about?

How many simultaneous connections do you need?

What size is the building, how many rooms, over how many floors, what are the buildings made out of etc...

 

What I would say is we've had Unifi switches and wireless access points for several years without any significant issues. We have 75 wired desktops, 75 wireless laptops and 35 iPads, plus the usual photocopiers etc...

They all run happily off 18 access points and 11 switches across two buildings. We're using a mixture of the original CAT5e cable infrastructure and any newer cabling is CAT6, plus 4 fibre links between the buildings.

 

Unifi is a good choice for the less techy (if I can manage it - anyone can) as the controller software can be manage 99% of the time through a browser.

 

I'm happy to explain our setup in more detail if you would like.

 

Oh, and No All Wifi isn't guaranteed to be up to 50% slower than wired - Max 1000Mbps via CAT5e compared to Max 1300Mbps over 5GHz wifi via a Unifi AC Pro access point, but these are max theoretical figures without any obstacles in the way. Real world is likely to be MUCH slower on both wired and wireless.

[computer_expert]

If you have little networking/IT knowledge I'd go for the meraki option as you should be able to pick the phone and call meraki support when you get stuck. If you prefer posting on community support forums that may or may not have the answer you need (or using the MSP if they offer support) then ubiquiti is for you.

 

I've used both and meraki easily won (which isn't surprising with the price difference). My experience of Ubiquiti switches/APs was OK, not fantastic due to the amount of buggy firmware they emitted during the period I used them.

[Ditto]

I can answer some those immediately - I just felt the post was already getting long!

 

There's so many variables to consider, it's hard to give you specific advice.

What sort of numbers of clients are you talking about?

How many simultaneous connections do you need?

What size is the building, how many rooms, over how many floors, what are the buildings made out of etc...]

 

Clients would be 30-40 maximum, probably averaging 15-20 on a normal day, maybe less. We have moved to a lot more remote working as a result of covid and need the office space for the young people we provide support to.

 

The building is 2 portacabins, separated by 10-15 foot of wooden decking. I believe there is also a metal container that's sometimes used. I guess the portacabins don't block wifi signals much, the metal container a very different scenario! It's probably around a dozen rooms, a key one being a large boardroom that would have the highest need. We may look at a proper conference room setup there in the future.

 

I believe our internet traffic has increased post covid due to a lot more online teams video meetings, but also installing calling for MS Teams. They've removed all desktops, of which there were probably about 20, so everyone is on a laptop now, except maybe the receptionist.

 

There's so many variables to consider, it's hard to give you specific advice.

What I would say is we've had Unifi switches and wireless access points for several years without any significant issues. We have 75 wired desktops, 75 wireless laptops and 35 iPads, plus the usual photocopiers etc...

They all run happily off 18 access points and 11 switches across two buildings. We're using a mixture of the original CAT5e cable infrastructure and any newer cabling is CAT6, plus 4 fibre links between the buildings.

Unifi is a good choice for the less techy (if I can manage it - anyone can) as the controller software can be manage 99% of the time through a browser.

I'm happy to explain our setup in more detail if you would like.

Oh, and No All Wifi isn't guaranteed to be up to 50% slower than wired - Max 1000Mbps via CAT5e compared to Max 1300Mbps over 5GHz wifi via a Unifi AC Pro access point, but these are max theoretical figures without any obstacles in the way. Real world is likely to be MUCH slower on both wired and wireless.

I think they only other thing I can add at this point, I don't expect anyone locally will be responsible for it's maintenance, that would come from our IT supplier as it does now.

[Aprice]

I think Ubiquiti would be fine for that situation, both platforms can be remotely managed (depending on how it is setup - Ubiquiti)

 

Meraki is a good product, if it wasn't for the constant licence fees it would be my first choice. But for your situation once it is in place it shouldn't require constant intervention maybe the odd firmware update every couple of months.

 

We've run much bigger and smaller installs of Ubiquiti with few issues, and as your IT supplier is responsible I would go with it and leave them to take care of it.

[Ditto]

Thanks for responses so far. Now to the topic of a leased line. Firstly, I will be speaking to the school whose site we are based on about the current cabling, but I have already highlighted the possibility of Excess Construction Charges. For the monthly payments post installation, we have two quotes for 100/1000Mbps, the second over a 1GB bearer at £20/month extra. For a three year contract, what sort of price ranges should we be looking at as a monthly figure. I'm happy to take a PM and use the same to share the figure we have.

[hallb15]

From what you've said, I think Unifi would be just right and Meraki would be overkill for your situation. If your IT supplier is suggesting Unifi they must be willing/able to support it.

The metal container sounds interesting and would need a site survey to ensure you had the right amount of access points in the right places - your IT supplier should be doing this anyway.

 

I can't help you with the leased line as we're lucky enough to be in a DarkFibre area so have fibre from Exa Networks. Its a 300Mb connection at the moment which is more than enough for us.

[MatthewL]

Unifi is more than suitable for what is needed and it will be a lot cheaper. Portacabins if the true metal ones they often block the signal of anything like that, looked into it a few years ago when my Dad worked in one.

 

If its 2 normal sized portacabins I cannot see you needing many AP's in this instance.

 

As regards to leased line, where are you internet requirements, what connection do you have now, does it suit you needs?

[Ditto]

Unifi is more than suitable for what is needed and it will be a lot cheaper. Portacabins if the true metal ones they often block the signal of anything like that, looked into it a few years ago when my Dad worked in one.

If its 2 normal sized portacabins I cannot see you needing many AP's in this instance.

As regards to leased line, where are you internet requirements, what connection do you have now, does it suit you needs?

 

I can't be certain on the 'portacabins' construction, but they aren't new! I worked in SIBCAS units that were full on modular classrooms. It was a freeschool awaiting it's real site, but these are a similar size. Seeing a fully fitted computer lab and chemistry lab craned in was fun, but I digress.

On the topic of the current line, I've yet to find exactly what we have, but I fear it could be a basic DSL line or two! The quote is stating we currently get 40gb download and 19 up. I doubt it's enough, but what actually sparked the proposal was complaints about dropped connections on WiFi. They were advised to plug in a cable, but the same issue was being reported - it has even occurred to me the issue could be individual laptops. I'm going to try to get more details and data from the IT Service company, but based on other work, I'm not too confident I'll get them. I would be very interested to see a full topology, hardware and software inventory, WiFi heatmap and traffic profiles.

 

What is a bit galling in some ways, our provider has basically said your kit and software is old and kranky, spend money with us to fix it. What the charity really needs is a universal service where they continuously maintain and advice us, not keep finding ways of us spending cash in fits and starts. I don't know the full details of the contract, so maybe I'm expecting too much, but as the charity doesn't really have the internal experience to self-serve or know if it's getting the right deal at the right price, I'm going somewhat out of my area of responsibility, but will do what I can - besides, I find it quite fun to learn along the way.

[robyholmes]

You mentioned the site is on the grounds of a school. Have you asked them if they can provide a Internet connection?

 

The school might be happy to share some bandwidth in return for a monthly payment. If not, you could find out the ISP they use and ask them for a quote. They should have a better idea of installation costs having already got a line in to the school.

[Ditto]

You mentioned the site is on the grounds of a school. Have you asked them if they can provide a Internet connection?

 

The school might be happy to share some bandwidth in return for a monthly payment. If not, you could find out the ISP they use and ask them for a quote. They should have a better idea of installation costs having already got a line in to the school.

I hope to get some more details from the school shortly. I have today learnt we pay just under £30 a month for 'Broadband' so it's looking increasingly like a semi-domestic line! Also I learnt the our IT Service provider said if we upgraded our kit, it's 50/50 as to whether the issues improve - not very reassuring. I think they mean if we don't also upgrade to a leased line. A 10 fold increase in monthly bill is going to be uncomfortable for our SLT, but I think they were getting away with things pre-covid with limited demand on wired connections. With a decision to move everyone to laptops, and increased traffic due to a lot more working with colleagues remotely, and a desire to have strong wireless in office, means they are going to have to come to terms with the fact commercial level requirements are going to come with commercial level rates.

[Ditto]

We are going to ask the IT Service provide to give us some more details. The list of request I have are

Network topology

Hardware/software versions - are we up to date

Historical usage to see ups/down and how it tracked pre and post covid and how it looks now

AP usage - are any saturated, dropping connections

WiFi heatmap for coverage

 

Is there anything more that you'd suggest as essential?

[Aprice]

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