Telephone and ADSL socket - back box mounted

[Ditto]

This is for home, not school, but I thought this forum was most stuitable.

 

Decorating a room at the moment. It has a surface mounted telephone socket. I don't think it's the Master socket - has a single flex which is routed through the external wall. A 25mm back box has been put in place hoping to have a faceplate put in so it protrudes less and looks neater. It seems quite easy to get a single phone socket face. I was hoping I could get a plate that has both the phone line and a filtered connection in case I want to put the modem in this room, rahter than having a dangling ADSL filter. My usual go to company is https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/ but either this isn't as straight forward as I hoped or I'm missing something. Any suggestions?

[jmak]

I think the answer you need is on this page (doesn't matter if you have a different ISP):

 

https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/getting-set-up/home-networks/a-wired-home-network/what-type-of-master-socket-have-i-got-

 

You'll know if the socket you're looking at is the master socket, because when you take the faceplate off, it'll have a phone socket behind it.

 

You'll get faster broadband speeds if you install a master socket with built in splitter/microfilter, but if you do that, you won't be able to plug your modem into any other sockets. If you want to plug your modem into a different socket, you'll need a microfilter on every socket in the house. You can get a combined faceplate like this:

 

https://www.bcedirect.co.uk/products/vdsl-adsl-splitter-socket-kit-high-speed-broadband-compatible-lj5119n?variant=12836727586839&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping

 

Anything that mentions NTE is not suitable for an extension.

 

You'll do better with the splitter in the NTE and then a network cable internally - or even a WiFi connection...

Edited March 21, 2020 by jmak

[Ditto]

This is interesting as I'd never really taken time to look at the sockets in my house. From the plastic pipe going underground, there is a black cable that routes in to the garage. From there, the black cable goes in to a 2i nch by 1.5 inch little white box. A cable spurs off from the box outside the garage though the external wall in to the room I mentioned in the OP. I know this is the same line as the main telephone as when plugging a phone in to it rings with the main phone. There is indication in the garage there was another box and it is possible the house previously supported a second (possibly business) line. The connection mentioned in the room in the OP was a small surface mount with a face plate smaller than needed for a standard back box.

 

On checking all the other sockets in the house, all are mounted in back boxes so don't protrude too much. I'd always assumed the one in the hall was master (it's where the modem is connected). The location is good and we get a strong single throughout the house. Having looked at the sockets in the lounge and hall, they are both single socket, 'full size' and mounted flush with a back box. We have one more in the main bedroom and I'm beginning to realise it is probably the master. Again it is mounted in a back box, but the face pate is a little deeper. It looks most like the first one of four in the BT link you provided under the heading 'Master socket with single socket'. The tricky thing is, the main bedroom is not so convenient for locating the modem/router. Note, all internet access is done wirelessly. I will try it out tomorrow to see of relocating the modem/router improves performance. I'm probably going to just install a simple phone only face plate in the dining/play room now, as it's unlikely we'd want a physical internet connection in that room. But I'm interest in best options to consider given our slightly unusual arrangement to ensure we get best performance and but best Wifi coverage. I should point out we are not FTTC - we are quite a way from the local cabinet so sticking with copper for now. Fibre would improve our performance, but as everyone else has piled off the ADSL to fibre in the village, we've seen the traditional copper line performance improve! However, with two of us working from home now and 2 kids hammering the bandwidth, we might need to switch to fibre before long. We get about 10GB on copper (and presumably from and extension and not the master socket), and the estimated speed of about 30GB max on FTTC, so it's a close call in terms of value for money. Plus, we can't afford downtime on a changeover!

[mavhc]

30 gigabytes? Per day?

[jmak]

The speed difference between connecting at the master socket and via the extensions will depend on the quality of your internal wiring. Mine is dire, so I got a significant speed improvement.

 

The reason for the socket behind the faceplate in the master socket is that it disconnects the extensions; it's officially called the test socket and separates the bit the ISP is responsible for from the bit that's your problem. I've just removed my faceplate and plugged my microfilter (and therefore modem/router) in there. It means it's also the only place I can plug a phone in.

 

Given the choice, I wouldn't want it in my bedroom either, but it's worth a try in case it makes it better.

[Ditto]

30 gigabytes? Per day?

Typo! 30 Megabits per second! ?If only it were Gigabits/sec!

[Ditto]

Wow - this was left in auto-restore content - so just 6 months late!

I swapped the hub to the master socket. The download shifted down from 10.4 to 10.2 but the upload went up to 0.93 fro 0.79. I completed a couple of tests and they were pretty consistent, but I guess it's in the bounds of normal variation. So, to conclude, it's clearly not worth moving the hub. I've decided to just get a standard phone socket cover plate for the room being decorated having concluded it's unlikely that the hub would ever go in that room.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Ditto

[Ditto]

Things have moved on a little. I've now decided to get a second line installed due to home working and contention with the kids online gaming! To leave options open going forwards, we decide to have a fibre (FTTC) connection from TalkTalk to add to out current DSL Sky connection. I'll be requesting the cabling goes to the upstairs study to enable a cabled connection. Once again, I prefer to have a recessed wall mounted connection rather than a surface mount. Having never had a fibre connection before, are there differences in the faceplates over a traditional connection. I'm aware the connection from the street cabinet to premises is still the same old copper, but having not had a fibre connection before thought I'd check. Estimated speed is 30Mbps, so whilst nothing exceptional, up to 3 times better than what we get now. Also, we received a flyer promoting FTTP - pointing us towards gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk where up to £1,500 per household is the carrot. I doubt I could persuade enough in my cul-de-sac to join in to make it viable, but wondered if anyone else had looked at similar schemes. I'm aware of Surrey Hills Internet | Ultrafast Internet for homes and businesses as a local provider, but I'm guessing it would all get very expensive.

[Boredguy]

Well a FTTC connection just comes in to the house over the normal twisted pair, so it's likely that TalkTalk might use one of the existing unused pairs on the cable from your property Junction box back to the street box (its unlikely they quoted a new cable installation).

From the property junction box, it's just a case of running the twisted pair to your location of choice.

When we had our line replaced by BT a couple of years ago due to a line break, we got the master socket moved to another room, so as long as you have a suitable backbox for a normal single gang face plate you should likely be fine.

[mavhc]

Depends on a) what percentage you can get to sign up, basically talking to the street one by one to convince them to pay 20% more for 10x speeds.

and b) how much permission/time they'll need to dig up what needs to be dug up.

 

If you can go to them saying "I've got 100 people willing to give you £30/month for at least 3 years, and probably forever" you have a plan.

[Ditto]

Depends on a) what percentage you can get to sign up, basically talking to the street one by one to convince them to pay 20% more for 10x speeds.

and b) how much permission/time they'll need to dig up what needs to be dug up.

 

If you can go to them saying "I've got 100 people willing to give you £30/month for at least 3 years, and probably forever" you have a plan.

 

9 houses in the cul-de-sac and a private road, so little chance! Would be better if the infrastructure laid tubing that allowed cable pulling without having to dig roads up.

[mavhc]

BT probably did, just have to use it without them finding out

[Ditto]

Well a FTTC connection just comes in to the house over the normal twisted pair, so it's likely that TalkTalk might use one of the existing unused pairs on the cable from your property Junction box back to the street box (its unlikely they quoted a new cable installation).

From the property junction box, it's just a case of running the twisted pair to your location of choice.

When we had our line replaced by BT a couple of years ago due to a line break, we got the master socket moved to another room, so as long as you have a suitable backbox for a normal single gang face plate you should likely be fine.

 

I agree, they are likely to use an existing spare twisted pair. I presume this is still compatible with an additional phone line (new number) and a second master socket? It will be interesting to compare speeds as Sky and TalkTalk have LLU at the exchange - my guess the limiting factor will still be the copper as we are quite far from the street cabinet. What I've still struggled to find with any clarity, is what backbox is the right size/depth with a new master box. I'm guessing they'd install NTE 5C, which looks to protrude massively. I'm hoping a standard single socket 35mm depth back plate would work, but haven't been been able to be reassured sufficiently to start cutting in to the wall.

[Boredguy]

Houses often have 2 or 3 pairs of copper run to the premises, so they will have used 1 pair for your current main line, so TT will use another pair for their line since they can use BTo cables to connect to their kit in the exchange.

 

No-one can use BTo's ductwork without authorisation @mavhc

 

Oh and the standard backbox on the NTE5C is 20mm deep, so anything deeper is fine (normal 85mm single gang socket box can be used)

Edited September 20, 2020 by Boredguy