[sims] New SIMS Server OR Upgrade Current Server

[JRA]

Hi all - bit new to this, trying to get my head around planning a move from an ancient old SIMS server to a shiny new one. Either that or upgrade what we have.

 

Current server is an HP DL380p G8 with a single Xeon E5 (6 cores @ 2ghz) and 96gb RAM. If I upgrade that and add a second processor, do I have to re-license SQL? I'm not sure what's right to do tbh.

 

Second (and least favourite option) is to replace the server. For doing that I guess the sane checklist is:

 

- Buy server (oh yes.)

- Install MSSQL

- Move scheduled tasks etc over

- Establish backups

- Install extras eg Groupcall et al.

 

If so, am I better off getting our LEA SIMS support team in to do the work, as I'm not feeling expert enough to undertake that? If I just need to be brave, SQL installation and licensing are the things that bother me currently - can anyone give me a potted guide on just what on earth Microsoft want form me?

 

Thanks muchly for reading everyone.

[PotNoodleTech]

Well the G8 isn't ancient, not by school standards anway! May be worth popping a second CPU and heatsink in if you can find one cheap. Yes you will have to revisit licencing if you change the number of CPU/cores.

 

Failing that - second hand server from ICT Direct / Serversource / IT in Stock. I don't buy anything new now!

[synaesthesia]

Well worth looking at solid state storage especially with prices the way they are currently.

[Linfit]

Thats not a bad spec for a typical SIMS server in a typical secondary. I think you might do better to spend the money on upgrading the storage on the existing server rather than upgrading/replacing the server.

I don't think you will significantly improve the performance by adding extra cores, and the memory is ample.

[supportman]

I would advise going virtual then the hardware is pretty irrelevant as you can move to anything if needed in the future. SSD is also a must with SQL databases.

[JRA]

Thanks everyone! I think I might up the RAM and add a processor in that case, far simpler and cheaper.

 

I would advise going virtual then the hardware is pretty irrelevant as you can move to anything if needed in the future. SSD is also a must with SQL databases.

I would, but I've quite definitely lost my trust in almost all virtualisation - never had anything but issues with Hyper-V and KVM. Currently going back to Hyper-V over KVM as it's the lesser of two evils.

[PotNoodleTech]

This maybe is for a new thread but what issues you been having with Hyperv? Been running VMware then HyperV for over a decade with no real issues?

[Mako]

I would agree with the idea of virtualising. I virtualised our aging SIMS server last summer, on a Hyper-V host with SSDs, and it now has blistering performance (I mean, as far as SIMS can "blister"...) despite being an exact virtual copy of the 2008r2 chassis. I didn't want to tamper with upgrading the guest OS.

[supportman]

I would, but I've quite definitely lost my trust in almost all virtualisation - never had anything but issues with Hyper-V and KVM. Currently going back to Hyper-V over KVM as it's the lesser of two evils.

Hyper-V in its simplest form with local storage should have no issues, been running it 8 years here I think now. Never had a single problem.

[JRA]

Thanks all - getting to grips with it again, dark memories were from another time where the old NM had CONSTANT issues with machines locking up, backups taking longer than the backup interval and never stopping... Swore I'd go with Linux and KVM next changce I got, which is all fine and dandy until you get *some* sort of error message, then you're legit on your own. Now going back to Hyper-V but I want to use three/four heads and a SAN.

 

I'm fumbling my way through it here...

 

Thanks again though everyone.

[supportman]

Thanks all - getting to grips with it again, dark memories were from another time where the old NM had CONSTANT issues with machines locking up, backups taking longer than the backup interval and never stopping... Swore I'd go with Linux and KVM next changce I got, which is all fine and dandy until you get *some* sort of error message, then you're legit on your own. Now going back to Hyper-V but I want to use three/four heads and a SAN.

 

I'm fumbling my way through it here...

 

Thanks again though everyone.

I should probably post i that other thread but SANS are designed for datacenters really, not single educational institutions. You are hugely complicating your setup if you use shared storage and teaming NICs. Saying that though... there is nothing wrong with doing it and I see many people on these forums doing exactly that, just seems like over engineering to me. Start simple!

[JRA]

I should probably post i that other thread but SANS are designed for datacenters really, not single educational institutions. You are hugely complicating your setup if you use shared storage and teaming NICs. Saying that though... there is nothing wrong with doing it and I see many people on these forums doing exactly that, just seems like over engineering to me. Start simple!

...People do it WITHOUT SANs now? What is this wizardry?!?!

[Mako]

...People do it WITHOUT SANs now? What is this wizardry?!?!

 

Local storage. Just create the VM's on the host machine.

 

I have 2 hyper-v hosts that replicate to each other for redundancy, and the VM's themselves are backed up elsewhere.

[PotNoodleTech]

...People do it WITHOUT SANs now? What is this wizardry?!?!

 

Yes - and I would strongly advise schools not to get kidded into buying SANS. Overpriced, overcomplicated, unneccasary for most schools. It's the PPI of the IT world

 

2 bog standard Dell R730 hosts here with SSD storage and greater than 99.9 uptime.

*touches wood*

Edited November 21, 2018 by PotNoodleTech

[JRA]

...Okay that's been a bit of a revelation! So, not meaning to ask stupid questions, but you need enough storage on each VM head to 'cope' with all the LUNs/VHDs of the guest VMs? That right?

 

I'll try and find a guide for all this, it's quite new to me now!

 

Seriously, thanks everyone!

[PotNoodleTech]

...Okay that's been a bit of a revelation! So, not meaning to ask stupid questions, but you need enough storage on each VM head to 'cope' with all the LUNs/VHDs of the guest VMs? That right?

 

I'll try and find a guide for all this, it's quite new to me now!

 

Seriously, thanks everyone!

 

Well look, I am not the be all and end all, there's plenty of people on here will which say I am talking rubbish and you need a SAN and a Fibre channel switch and dual fibre cards per server and 3 or 4 nodes etc.

 

For me, I like to keep it simple, the simpler it is, the less to go wrong, the more reliable, the cheaper, the easier for you and anyone who replaces you to manage, and in my experience, the faster!

 

Servers are so bonkersly fast now (with 64 cores, 256GB or more RAM, and space for 24 - 48 hard drives in each server), that I simply cannot believe there are any schools out there who actually need more than two of those!!

[Mako]

I completely agree with @AButters above post.

 

2 hosts, each with 128 gb RAM and 32 cores to spread around, and 5 enterprise SSDs to give 3tb of storage for my VMs. No need for SANs.

 

Doing some file copy tests and seeing 1gbps in file transfer speeds was mind blowing. The only limitation I have now is SIMS itself. Seems that there is a distinct limit on how much hardware you can throw at it before you just admit that it's a crap and bloaty piece of software.

[JRA]

Ahh right - thanks all!

 

So, in terms of planning, just set up two/three monstrous heads full of SSDs, each one on its own having enough storage to potentially hold all VHDs, install, add roles, knock the cluster up, off we go. I'll add in "find a guide for it all" in there too.

 

This sounding ok?

 

My goodness, thank you all so much! This was a good day!

[supportman]

Ahh right - thanks all!

So, in terms of planning, just set up two/three monstrous heads full of SSDs, each one on its own having enough storage to potentially hold all VHDs, install, add roles, knock the cluster up, off we go. I'll add in "find a guide for it all" in there too.

This sounding ok?

My goodness, thank you all so much! This was a good day!

 

Basically yes, My standard Hyper-V host is a simple Dell r330 with a single 512gb SSD and 64gb of Ram. It tends to be able to run up to about 5 virtual machines on that without any issues. I use Veeam to backup each night.

[Sonic007]

How big is the SQL server? If less than 10GB you could use Express for free?

 

Id definately go for a new server but then make the Sims server virtual. So much easier to backup and restore from if anything goes wrong.

[JRA]

Basically yes, My standard Hyper-V host is a simple Dell r330 with a single 512gb SSD and 64gb of Ram. It tends to be able to run up to about 5 virtual machines on that without any issues. I use Veeam to backup each night.

 

Cheers! Do you use the freebie one?

How big is the SQL server? If less than 10GB you could use Express for free?

Id definately go for a new server but then make the Sims server virtual. So much easier to backup and restore from if anything goes wrong.

Nah we're at a muscular 15-17gb I think. I have SSDs in the current server, but more RAM and another processor won't hurt for sure.

 

Thanks everyone!

[matt40k]

SQL 2017 Express is limited to 4 cores and 1.4GB ram

[supportman]

Cheers! Do you use the freebie one?

 

We paid for it. 5 year support license was less than 2 grand I think at the time. I'm not even sure if you need to extend the license once that's up so its a great price for a comprehensive "best of" backup solution.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Cheers! Do you use the freebie one?

 

Nah we're at a muscular 15-17gb I think. I have SSDs in the current server, but more RAM and another processor won't hurt for sure.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

As mentioned earlier, I've got loads of bits for this generation of server. Drop me a PM if you like and i'll let you know how cheaply you can upgrade the RAM and CPUs