Copyright vs. TV Programmes?

[Gongalong]

Hi folks,

 

We have a number of TV programmes that over the years were recorded to PVR, and then burned to DVD. My understanding is that this is not in breach of copyright.

 

Why is it not possible to record say an iPlayer programme to a file and then play that? Is it simply due to breaching iPlayer's terms and conditions?

 

(Yes I know about copyrightandschools.org, but it doesn't answer this specific question)

 

Thanks

[flyinghaggis]

Hi folks,

 

We have a number of TV programmes that over the years were recorded to PVR, and then burned to DVD. My understanding is that this is not in breach of copyright.

 

Why is it not possible to record say an iPlayer programme to a file and then play that? Is it simply due to breaching iPlayer's terms and conditions?

 

(Yes I know about copyrightandschools.org, but it doesn't answer this specific question)

 

Thanks

 

My understanding is that most schools have an ERA licence which allows them to store and playback content which has been specifically "broadcast" on terrestrial television. Unfortunately its never been updated for digital services so even those offered by companies who broadcast in the UK (BBC, ITV, C4, etc) can't be recorded legally without breaching their T&Cs.

 

https://era.org.uk/the-licence/

[Gongalong]

It's this bit of the FAQ that seems to be key, and would seem to prohibit permanent download of files from digital services:

 

"Can I record on-demand services?

Educational establishments with an ERA Licence can access and download content from on-demand services such as BBC iPlayer, All 4, ITV Hub and Demand 5 in a similar way to personal private users.

 

Users should check the terms and conditions of the services for details."

 

https://era.org.uk/the-licence/frequently-asked-questions/

 

As you say, it's just out of date for digital services, although none of these services allow downloading of files and circumventing of time limits. Aaagh!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

If a file were recorded to PVR, and then exported from the PVR to a PC (not sure if any PVRs have a direct copy facility), that would presumably be legal. Just trying to get away from DVDs.

[sonofsanta]

My understanding was that because you had to circumvent the DRM to record an on-demand programme, that was in breach of the Computer Misuse Act, and so even though you end up with the same end product (a recorded programme) the method by which you obtained it is relevant, and only the version recorded from the OTA broadcast is legal.

 

This is ridiculous and I resent having to explain it to staff so often. I'd happily rip from iPlayer etc. and never bat an eyelid morally, given our ERA+ licence and the nature of our institution. But copyright law is ridiculous, and desperate for reform in so many ways.

[jthompson]

Could this be rooted in the idea that the broadcaster might have certain rights covering the traditional broadcast, but a different set of rights covering the availability of the same thing on-demand. Not everything broadcast is necessarily available on-demand, and not everything available on-demand was broadcast.

 

Presumably rights are secured for on-demand content on the basis that it's got DRM in place.

[Gongalong]

Absolutely, it's because of the availability of the programme. I think that's a bit rich when it's a BBC made programme, but they of course make money out of then selling the content on DVDs, Blu-Ray, iTunes etc.

 

I can't see an easy way for them to make the content permanently available for education without compromising their sales.

 

Some of this ends up on YouTube so inevitably teachers take the path of least rend up using that as well, despite the content being there illegally. The BBC are pretty hot on getting content removed, but other channels not so much.