New CCTV System

[Cat_Jam148]

Hi Guys, wondering if I could get some ideas about what should be done with our old CCTV system.

 

We currently have an old analogue coax DVR connected to 12 cameras dotted about the site that is starting to show its age. Currently, the system is monitored by a alarm monitoring company who will check the system if our Redcare IR sensors get tripped. I've had a few people come in with varying opinions on whether the current coax system should be upgraded, or just replace the entire system with an IP system.

 

What are your current setups? What would you recommend? I've been looking at the IP systems available and they look pretty good, but i'm having difficulty convincing the Site Manager to go for a new system.

[AJWhite1970]

We replaced a 5 camera coax system (poor quality and expensive annual maintenance) and went completely in-house with a 20 camera Unifi IP Video solution. £150 per camera, no annual maintenance and the DVR software is free hosted on-site on a server of your choice of flavour.

 

Excellent system which the staff love and the boys not so much...

[caffrey]

We use Ubiquiti Unifi here, mainly because we have Ubiquiti everything. I can't compare it to other systems but it's reliable enough. It's PoE so IP Based so you will need PoE switches etc. so something else to take into account

[Sibrows]

Like the others have said we brought our CCTV in-house from an externally managed system with very poor image quality and very expensive maintenance.

 

We're also UniFi 40 cameras: mainly gen2 & gen3 UVC Pros, UVC Domes & gen2 & gen3 UVC.

[Cat_Jam148]

We use Ubiquiti Unifi here, mainly because we have Ubiquiti everything. I can't compare it to other systems but it's reliable enough. It's PoE so IP Based so you will need PoE switches etc. so something else to take into account

 

I switched over our Wifi APs to Ubiquiti last year and haven't looked back, great piece of kit. Moving some of our switches over to Ubiquiti aswell. What do you guys do concerning monitoring of the camera system?

[Sibrows]

What do you guys do concerning monitoring of the camera system?

Generally in response to an incident. SLT, HODs and site & IT teams have access.

 

Or during the holidays to keep an eye on deliveries as reception isn't manned.

[Mako]

We have around 100 cameras on an in-house system of a mix of BNC coax and IP cameras. When I first started here they ran off servers using Geovision combi cards and Windows XP. I built 6 new servers on a shoestring budget, using entry-level desktop components, and salvaged the capture cards, they've been working okay for about 5 years now.

 

There's a TV in my office with a live feed, and only the pastoral team and SLT have authority to view the footage.

[dhicks]

It's PoE so IP Based so you will need PoE switches etc. so something else to take into account

 

You don't have to get whole new switches, you can just use PoE injectors (assuming you have a spare power socket in your switch cabinet, of course). Saying that, we actually wound up getting a couple of the smaller 8-port Ubiquiti switches just to power CCTV cameras in a couple of areas where we have several, it was the most affordable way of providing PoE connections.

[mavhc]

You could get a hybrid system to use what you have and add more IP cameras, depends on the quality, and cost of putting ethernet to those locations

[southhamster]

That's what we did. New Hikvision IP DVR with a Hikvision analogue to IP converter. We can gradually upgrade to IP when the old cameras fail or add extra IP cams easily. The quality of new higher resolution analogue cams isn't bad either when we've replaced them.

[kidpressingbuttons]

+1 for unifi rolled it out to 2 schools. Got 30 onsite with the unifi application server running the show

[Chris_Cook]

What are the issues with the current system?

 

At one school we are IP with Milestone XProtect. Once you get beyond about 40 or 50 cameras, its quite expensive to add more camera licences but its quite a nice solution. For your 12 cameras, its probably not that expensive. Hikvision do some nice hi-res ip cameras for around £100.

 

At another school, we use some old DVRs that were already installed, and then used the free milestone software to connect these into one console/system. We had to throw quite a lot of storage at it though, so not totally free. You could do something similar with the Hikvision software. I think you can add 8 DVRs to milestone before you have to start paying, and each one can be up to 64 channels/cameras. The only tricky bit is finding the rtsp url for the streams. One old DVR we couldn't get working, so we replaced it with a cheap Hikvision unit. The DVRs are basically being used as encoders

 

There are options to run IP or HD analogue down existing coax, but if you need new cable I'd go with cat5e. If you still run analogue cameras, you can just use converters/baluns.

 

I'd start with a plan, work out what cameras you've got, what problems there are with each, where you want to add cameras. Make sure you have enough capacity in the new system for future additions.

[Cat_Jam148]

What are the issues with the current system?

 

The current camera resolution is really poor - have to wonder how they were approved in the first place. Also, the box itself has had numerous failures over the last year or so.

 

I think i'll have a look into the Ubiquiti and Hikvision kit.

[TechMonkey]

We just moved from about 30 analogue cameras going back to 6 Coax DVRs dotted around the school that were fairly poor quality and gave us no end of issues to new Mobotix IP cameras recording to a Synology box. As others have said, quality has shot up, no need for maintenance or service contract and we have gone down in number of cameras but up in coverage. All our switches ae POE+ so we didn't have any issues there, I'm not a fan of injectors. Mobotix are more expensive than HIkvision, which was the other system we looked at, but gave better quality, have greater flexibility and a lot more secure.

 

We are just looking at the new Mobotix PTZ as an infill camera, not recording, which has 40x zoom! Pretty impressive footage.

[mrbios]

Recently started the project of replacing our old analogue cameras. Went with a Hikvision NVR + various models of Hikvision camera. I did look at the unifi stuff originally, but there's not enough of a range to fill all our needs. I'd recommend getting quotes from Millgate if you're interested in the Hikvision stuff, they've been the cheapest source for me. Picture quality, even on the nightvision out door stuff has been really good.

[Cat_Jam148]

Thanks for the answers guys, really appreciated. How do you handle detections? Our current system is tied in with a redcare unit and a bunch of IR sensors that allow an outside monitoring company to view the cameras when an IR sensor is tripped. Do you guys have anything like this with your camera systems? or is it just all motion detection on the cameras?

 

Thanks again!

[PotNoodleTech]

Looking to do this here too - was looking at Unifi cameras and have other schools recommend the but we need a larger variety of cameras including PTZ as it is a very spread out site and unifi don't do anything like that.

 

A local school near me had 2 hikvision DVR and 90 cameras installed and the system looked really good with excellent quality. I've got a hikvision DVR now and it's a toy, the stuff the other school had was big rackmount 3U DVR's and the software was in a different league to what I have now!

[TechMonkey]

larger variety of cameras including PTZ as it is a very spread out site and unifi don't do anything like that.

 

Careful with PTZ cameras. They are great fun but generally considered only useful if you have someone monitoring full time. Murphy's law states the camera will be facing the wrong way to any incident or footage you wish to see, even if you have parking or a tour setup. PTZ are better suited to situations where you want to supplement fixed cameras, for closer monitoring or to be able to get a grand view of something.

 

Not saying that you shouldn't get them or they never work but in a previous life we ended up adding a fixed camera to cover the view the PTZ was supposed to cover and used the PTZ for crowd control and monitoring unfolding events. I am looking at them for my current place and, again, it will be for a longer reach and to monitor situations rather than as part of our perimeter coverage.

 

They are blooming cool though

[Griff]

+1 for UniFi we use the UVC G3 Dome cameras nice little units very cheap do all the install ourselves, ours are setup to record on motion. The unifi software is really nice as well very easy to use we have SLT use it so we don't have to get massively involved in pulling recordings off.

[PotNoodleTech]

Careful with PTZ cameras. They are great fun but generally considered only useful if you have someone monitoring full time. Murphy's law states the camera will be facing the wrong way to any incident or footage you wish to see, even if you have parking or a tour setup. PTZ are better suited to situations where you want to supplement fixed cameras, for closer monitoring or to be able to get a grand view of something.

 

Not saying that you shouldn't get them or they never work but in a previous life we ended up adding a fixed camera to cover the view the PTZ was supposed to cover and used the PTZ for crowd control and monitoring unfolding events. I am looking at them for my current place and, again, it will be for a longer reach and to monitor situations rather than as part of our perimeter coverage.

 

They are blooming cool though

 

Totally agree, the PTZ's are always facing the wrong way if you have them on a pattern. We only need a few for the outskirts they will probably be fixed in one place, but as you said come in to their own for monitoring unfolding events which they are fantastic at with a 20x30x zoom. We often need to track stragglers on the edges of the site.

 

Really, I could get away with running 95% of the cameras as unifi fixed bullets, and having a separate system for the 3 or 4 outdoor OTZ cameras we need. I didn't want to have two systems but it looks like it may be the best value option.

[Sephiroth]

We're slowly replacing our aged analogue system with Mobotix IP cameras. we currently have 5 360° C26 cameras and an external M15 camera covering our rear entrance, which has a colour and a night vision lens in it. We looked at Hikvision and Axis, but we know of other schools that use Mobotix and are happy with it.

 

One of the main selling points is the software licencing is free, so you can have as many cameras as you want connected with no additional cost (except storage).

 

The 360° cameras act as software PTZ, so you can "flatten" the image and move around it just as you would with a conventional PTZ.

 

@TechMonkey We did have a conversation with a supplier last week, who said that the new PTZ cameras from Mobotix are not theirs; I can't remember the company, but I believe that they acquired another company, and these are still licenced under the model of the previous company. Something like that anyway. Just be wary when looking into these. I didn't pay a vast amount of attention as I have no intention of using PTZ cameras anyway, for the reasons stated above.

 

These cameras have various analytics in them and triggering systems. We have them on a 1 fps continual record and record at full frame rate on event; in our case, motion detection. You can have these linked to external devices by relay as well for control of doors, gates, etc, as well as human triggered recording or action.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Sephiroth
Additional info

[TechMonkey]

We're slowly replacing our aged analogue system with Mobotix IP cameras. we currently have 5 360° C26 cameras and an external M15 camera covering our rear entrance, which has a colour and a night vision lens in it. We looked at Hikvision and Axis, but we know of other schools that use Mobotix and are happy with it.

 

One of the main selling points is the software licencing is free, so you can have as many cameras as you want connected with no additional cost (except storage).

 

The 360° cameras act as software PTZ, so you can "flatten" the image and move around it just as you would with a conventional PTZ.

 

@TechMonkey We did have a conversation with a supplier last week, who said that the new PTZ cameras from Mobotix are not theirs; I can't remember the company, but I believe that they acquired another company, and these are still licenced under the model of the previous company. Something like that anyway. Just be wary when looking into these. I didn't pay a vast amount of attention as I have no intention of using PTZ cameras anyway, for the reasons stated above.

 

These cameras have various analytics in them and triggering systems. We have them on a 1 fps continual record and record at full frame rate on event; in our case, motion detection. You can have these linked to external devices by relay as well for control of doors, gates, etc, as well as human triggered recording or action.

 

The C26 cameras are great aren't they, I love showing those off to blow people's minds!

 

That is interesting, not been told that. Well we knew it was a rebadged camera but not the licensing issue.

[mavhc]

I guess really you'd want a wide angle camera to detect the motion and automatically moved the PTZ camera to that location for higher res

[Net-Ctrl]

I believe that they acquired another company, and these are still licenced under the model of the previous company. Something like that anyway. Just be wary when looking into these. I didn't pay a vast amount of attention as I have no intention of using PTZ cameras anyway, for the reasons stated above.

 

As far as i'm aware there is no additional licensing with the Mobotix Move PTZ cameras. They were developed by another company, but don't think there are any additional licenses involved with getting up and running. I know not relevant for you, but perhaps others. We see the PTZ as a camera to complement an existing Mobotix install to allow for investigatory work. We had a play with one of the cameras in the office the other week and the zoom is pretty incredible.

[ChrisS]

I'm looking at Maraki's video solutionand I like the on-device encrypted storage on wifi cameras but it occurred to me that there might be something comparable and cheaper out there.

 

Anyone had a play with Shinobi? The "pro" version is free to Edu. Does not seem to accommodate cameras with built in storage in the way Meraki does it. I was wondering what people'e experience of having the media write back to storage servers via wifi is?

 

The thought did occur to me that old smart phones in some sort of hardened case might be an interesting project. Obviously they are wifi enabled with built in storage. USB powered.