Next step as our projectors begin to fail and require replacement

[pjlivesey]

We replaced all our projectors 5 years ago with Epson ultra short throw versions that display on Smartboards.

 

The first one has failed beyond repair.

 

I have been looking for the last two years, on and off, at where we go next.

 

The large LED screens are either too expensive or too small for the classrooms at a reasonable price.

 

Continuing with projectors that have a filament type bulb won't really move things on.

 

Ultra short throw LED projectors seem very expensive!

 

Has anyone had any experience of this and have suggestions as to which technology is most cost effective whilst providing teachers with great quality projection.

 

Happy to consider anything that works and is reliable.

[jthompson]

We're still using traditional projectors (i.e. non-LED, not short throw) wherever possible. They're cheaper, lighter, smaller and can be used with universal ceiling mounts (so easily swapped out when needed).

[synaesthesia]

Frankly, from a cost perspective it would be daft to get anything but a reasonably decent standard projector until you can go down the route of LCD displays. Any sort of projector isn't really "moving anything along", and I still don't recommend the LED ones after seeing them drop like flies on a mass scale despite being looked after. I'd strongly push for the LCD's if you can, ask the business manager/bursar for help looking for grants if need be. Easier and tidier cabling, more reliable, decent warranties, a 65" is sufficient for the majority classrooms and they're coming in typically at around 1600-1800 fitted for interactive ones. I really do think you need to be going down that route if moving forward is as big a concern as budget. Insert cliche here about having a cake and eating it.

[SamanthaD]

My preference is screens, laser projectors then lamp projectors in that order. Notice LED projection doesn't even get a look in!

 

Perhaps in the short term replace your Epsons like for like, then start a rolling programme of screen upgrades. You'll soon have a small stock of old projectors to replace ones that die for a few more months / years as the screen programme continues....

[PotNoodleTech]

Been replacing all our Sanyo and Hitachi with Casio and don't regret it. They are holding up really well and have well outlasted the old projectors in terms of brightness and image quality. The Hitachi were terribly bad after a couple of years.

 

Same problem here though - would dearly like to replace the entire fleet with touchscreens but can not afford it so keep plugging a way on the Casio's £500 a pop.

 

The most important thing from my perspective is to allow the teachers to teach, image quality, brightness and focus which the casios seem to be able to hold solidly for several years.

[Chris_Cook]

One school has lots of smart all in one boards. These are getting replaced with Cello 65inch non touch TVs where possible. This school has solid walls, but really high or weak ceilings so a traditional projector doesn't work in a lot of rooms. And ultra short throw projectors are stupid money. Touch isn't used that much by most departments.

 

Our other school has good ceilings, but walls that are difficult to mount a heavy tv on. Most rooms have a ceiling-mounted projector already, so they get an Epson x27 or the current equivalent. Half the rooms have old promeathan boards which just about work for touch, but a lot of them arn't used.

 

We'd like to do more TVs but cost and size is often a concern. Also, the TVs are much more fragile than an IWB.

 

We tried the casio route, but while they were good to start with, the epsons were cheaper, brighter and last longer.

[Chuckster]

We put in something like 16 Ctouch screens on a 3 year lease which costs us approx. £8,000 per year.

 

Maybe it's worth you going down the same route. Stumping up a significant amount of money as a one-off is too much to swallow, so spreading the cost helps.

[christhetech]

I would definitely consider taking the plunge and gong for interactive screens, much less hassle than Boards and projectors.

Get some demos booked with a few manufacturers and choose your screens based on the features that the teaching staff need. Get them involved in the demos if possible, as they will be the ones that you get all of the grief from if you choose the wrong ones. Have a list of "needs" and "nice to haves" and let the reseller do the hard work of negotiating pricing for you until you get to a figure that the school can fit into the budget.

Even going down the leasing route that Chuckster mentioned may be an option for you with you knowing exactly how much it is going to eat into your budget for the next 3 or 5 years. We took our last batch of interactive screens in the summer on a 3 year lease. They have 5 years onsite warranty included with them, so I know that I don't have to worry about them at all for the next 5 years. We purchased some screens around 2 years ago, so if anything fails here in the next 3 years, it's the manufacturers problem to deal with and in 3 years time, we will have the money that we are currently using for leasing the new screens available to repair/replace any of the older screens that may fail after the warranty period has ended. I'm not expecting any of them to fail, but if they do, at least I know that there will be some money available if we do need to get hoold of a replacement.

[unixman_again]

We are hoping to go with Tango Teach - Multitouch teaching software by Osborne Technologies across the entire college. Over the summer break, we were looking to replace 14 projectors and Smart boards. The boards are 12 years old and the Smart licencing for them is strangely expensive. It was going to cost £2100 per room for new projector and board. The Tangos came in at £2800 but they have far more features than an interactive whiteboard, use less electricity, and we won't be replacing lamps at £250ish each year. Classrooms don't need speakers and amps either. We managed to convince SMT to allow us to have 6 as a trial, 3 wall mounted and 3 portable.

 

The teachers love them, even though they haven't discovered all the features yet (the boards have been in a month). The portable ones were a bad idea - they are too awkward to move, so they have stayed where we put them. One was so difficult to get through the door, there is no way it is ever coming out, except to be mounted onto a wall.

[Mako]

We're still using traditional projectors (i.e. non-LED, not short throw) wherever possible. They're cheaper, lighter, smaller and can be used with universal ceiling mounts (so easily swapped out when needed).

 

This is what we do. Over the last 3 years we have been slowly removing SMARTBoards at teacher's requests. They prefer having a white dry-marker board instead. The boards being removed are 10 years old and are failing, but school won't foot a cost for replacement, so we're going back to ink.

 

It's cheaper to chuck a £300-400 projector in there and pay a couple of quid for a marker pen. In my experience the SMARBoards were just glorified projection boards anyway. The only interactive feature used was to touch it to knock a PowerPoint onto the next slide. There's been no complaints about removing the technology, as new staff don't complain about what they never had.

[christhetech]

We are hoping to go with Tango Teach - Multitouch teaching software by Osborne Technologies across the entire college. Over the summer break, we were looking to replace 14 projectors and Smart boards. The boards are 12 years old and the Smart licencing for them is strangely expensive. It was going to cost £2100 per room for new projector and board. The Tangos came in at £2800 but they have far more features than an interactive whiteboard, use less electricity, and we won't be replacing lamps at £250ish each year. Classrooms don't need speakers and amps either. We managed to convince SMT to allow us to have 6 as a trial, 3 wall mounted and 3 portable.

 

The teachers love them, even though they haven't discovered all the features yet (the boards have been in a month). The portable ones were a bad idea - they are too awkward to move, so they have stayed where we put them. One was so difficult to get through the door, there is no way it is ever coming out, except to be mounted onto a wall.

 

£2,800 each is very steep indeed for interactive screens, especially if you are looking to replace as many as 14!

We got pricing from a range of manufacturers before getting our screens in and none of them were anywhere near that price.

[SamanthaD]

What size are the tango screens? That seems very steep!

[unixman_again]

Our Tangos are 75".

[christhetech]

Our Tangos are 75".

 

Still sounds quite steep to me. For 14 screens, you should be getting quite a healthy discount from the manufacturer, even if you are not replacing all 14 at once. Whether you are replacing all in one hit or in a couple of phases, they will still be selling the same amount of hardware, so should be willing to budge a little on price to secure the deal.

[SamanthaD]

That's a fair price for 75" - about what we pay for Iiyamas. But that's inc. VAT!

 

The price hike is at the 70" point - 65's are quite cheap in comparison.

[unixman_again]

Being a college, we have to pay VAT If had been able to but 14, the discount was very good, but SMT wanted to see how they went. I do wish SMT would leave IT matters to us.

[Bev]

We're moving to 65in tv's, not touch screen, they seem much easier to see in the classroom that projector / screen and they deal with the sound as well so less cabling/speakers/amplifiers etc.

[christhetech]

We're moving to 65in tv's, not touch screen, they seem much easier to see in the classroom that projector / screen and they deal with the sound as well so less cabling/speakers/amplifiers etc.

 

Do the teachers not use the interactive functions on the existing screens? If they do, they may be in for a bit of a surprise when it's not there any more.

[TomHD]

Moved from projectors to interactive flat screens and would never look back. I only have 1 projector left in the entire school and that's in the hall where a flat screen wouldn't work well. The initial outlay is large but they will pay for themselves over the 10 years you'd expect them live for. Teachers are so much happier not having to align and the image is miles ahead of projectors.

[PotNoodleTech]

Moved from projectors to interactive flat screens and would never look back. I only have 1 projector left in the entire school and that's in the hall where a flat screen wouldn't work well. The initial outlay is large but they will pay for themselves over the 10 years you'd expect them live for. Teachers are so much happier not having to align and the image is miles ahead of projectors.

 

This!!! I just wish I could find the £2-3k per class for my 50 classes!

 

Also, be interesting to see if they will last 10 years, based on my experiences of large TVs I suspect not!

[TomHD]

This!!! I just wish I could find the £2-3k per class for my 50 classes!

 

Also, be interesting to see if they will last 10 years, based on my experiences of large TVs I suspect not!

 

Get one right away and installed in a classroom where the teacher will use it effectively, I chose the Computing curriculum coordinator. Once you have one in school your teachers and SLT will see their benefit and the money will be found. That's how I played it and it seems to have worked. Best of luck

 

Regarding my 10 year expectation. Our boards came with a 5 year on-site warranty so I have just doubled that, I may be wrong and would be interested to hear what other's expect regarding life span?

[christhetech]

Get one right away and installed in a classroom where the teacher will use it effectively, I chose the Computing curriculum coordinator. Once you have one in school your teachers and SLT will see their benefit and the money will be found. That's how I played it and it seems to have worked. Best of luck

 

Regarding my 10 year expectation. Our boards came with a 5 year on-site warranty so I have just doubled that, I may be wrong and would be interested to hear what other's expect regarding life span?

 

I'm not sure that I'm expecting to get 10 years use out of ours, although I'd certainly be expecting them to be easily outliving their 5 year warranty period. We've had no issues at all with the ones that we have and the teachers here wouldn't consider for one second going back to the old SmartBoard & projector set ups that we had previously. For me, just the saving in time, effort & money in no longer having to replace failed projector lamps makes the switch to screens worthwhile. If we get somewhere in the region of 7-8 years out of them, it will have been a worthwhile investment and they will have quite comfortably paid for themselves by that time. Any more than that will be a bonus.

[jthompson]

If we get somewhere in the region of 7-8 years out of them, it will have been a worthwhile investment and they will have quite comfortably paid for themselves by that time.

 

Picture quality, usability, etc. aside, how are they paying for themselves? We don't use interactive boards here, so the economics of it are perhaps a bit different.

 

A vanilla, XGA projector will last about that long, with maybe one or two replacement lamps. That's about £500-£600 total, with maybe another £500 of power across 8 years (400W for 5 hours per school day). We'd struggle to sell SLT on £2k-£3k screens for 100 rooms.

[TomHD]

Picture quality, usability, etc. aside

 

You can't ignore those factors when considering cost. These are the exact reasons I choose to buy an iPhone, sure all other phones do what I need a phone to do, just iPhone does them better. Same can be said for IFPs vs projectors.

Edited October 15, 2018 by TomHD

[jthompson]

That's fair enough, but I'd be wanting to qualify things a bit more.

For instance, what advantages does having a resolution above XGA actually bring (as in, what can you do with a higher res that can't be done with XGA)? If an XGA display is thrown large enough for people at the back of the room to read, something like PowerPoint, or a video, is not really any [functionally] different. I'll grant you that having a more accurate touch input, without ever needing to do any projector alignment routines, is nice, but is it enabling anything categorically different?

 

I'm not just making points at people, I'm genuinely interested in whether there are categorical differences that we're simply not buying into by sticking with traditional projectors. Hardly any interactive board use here (only in Maths and LS). Not having to install separate speakers systems alongside projectors would be nice. Do people use speakers in these screens for delivering audio?

Edited October 15, 2018 by jthompson