New Tablets/iPads Advice

[Mumm-Ra]

Hi,

 

We currently have some older generation iPads and some Amazon tablets. However, as our broadband is provided through the council, there are limitations on the Apps we can install.

 

I have a substantial budget but am reluctant to just go for the latest iPads at £340 each when they won't be used to their full potential.

 

It will be a set per year group and ideally with a charge/sync storage. Mostly used for coding and Internet use as we also have a set of laptops.

 

Any advice is much appreciated!

[FN-GM]

I would seriously consider the new ChromeOS Tablets. There is a new software update due out soon that will make them but easier to use as well. You can fully manage them, ingrate with AD (via G Suite) and fully manage them. ChromeOS is designed to be managed on an enterprise scale. You also get guaranteed software updates for quite a long period. https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en

 

We managed 600 ChromeOS devices and the 50 ipads need much more TLC from us.

[Mumm-Ra]

I would seriously consider the new ChromeOS Tablets. There is a new software update due out soon that will make them but easier to use as well. You can fully manage them, ingrate with AD (via G Suite) and fully manage them. ChromeOS is designed to be managed on an enterprise scale. You also get guaranteed software updates for quite a long period. https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en

 

We managed 600 ChromeOS devices and the 50 ipads need much more TLC from us.

 

Thank you. I'll look into these.

[2ilent8cho]

Hi,

 

I have a substantial budget but am reluctant to just go for the latest iPads at £340 each when they won't be used to their full potential.

 

£340? They are £319 on Apple's website for the 32GB, education pricing will be even lower, and when you knock off VAT you should be paying more like £250 an iPad not £340.

[Mumm-Ra]

This was a quick quote through a supplier.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

£340? They are £319 on Apple's website for the 32GB, education pricing will be even lower, and when you knock off VAT you should be paying more like £250 an iPad not £340.

 

This was a quick quote through a supplier.

 

I thought those prices were pretty high!

 

You shouldn't be paying more than £240 for the current gen 32GB iPad.

[Mumm-Ra]

I contacted Apple who have given my requirements onto their sellers. First quote is £245 each but when you start adding the charging trolley, installation etc. it's about £38,000 for 90 iPads.

[christhetech]

I contacted Apple who have given my requirements onto their sellers. First quote is £245 each but when you start adding the charging trolley, installation etc. it's about £38,000 for 90 iPads.

 

What charging trolleys are they quoting for and how much are they quoting for installation? £15k for a couple of Charging trolleys and some installation seems quite steep to be fair.

[AlanD]

I'm always a bit concerned when I hear "We need ipads….or wifi….or laptops....one to one scheme...or "

 

I always think these things need to be driven by what you want students to achieve....and hopefully that is ICT skills...and programming skills...

 

And the OP indicates that browsing and "coding" is required. And while any device could manage browsing I'd want to explore carefully which apps are available to achieve "coding" - and if they are better served with one platform rather than another. Are you going to run Office365 apps - or google - or do you really want the iOS suite? Are you happy with the way they run on the device you are thinking about. Keep the focus on what you want to achieve and what you need to put in place for that to happen (and it will probably include training and support for staff....unless you simply want to hand devices out for a playtime session in class....with students spending more time creating backdrop images and customising the device than doing any IT focussed task.

 

Undoubtedly you could get numerically more Android devices than ipad ones.....which is worth something....and don't forget ongoing costs of a management MDM solution...and repairs/replacements.

[Mumm-Ra]

Hi Chris,

 

The charge trolleys have been quoted at £595. Installation for two engineers is £1100. Staff training is £395 for a half day and £695 for a full day.

 

I should add the total with support, cases etc. is £31,000 without VAT.

[Mumm-Ra]

Thanks for your post, Alan. I share your concerns. Although I am leading Computing, I am by no means an expert and purely a teacher who wants to improve how we use technology. Fortunately, my head and governors are supportive hence me posting on here first before a heavy investment.

 

The coding program that we follow is Web based. We also use TimesTables Rockstars and EducationCity which are the same. The tablets are likely to be for these purposes on the whole. However, cameras, recording etc. may be required depending on the teachers' topics. They may also be used for interventions such as translation for EAL pupils.

 

After speaking to secondary teachers, the children will be learning how to use Word, PowerPoint etc. as well as typing and a few other basic skills.

 

Teaching staff use Office365 for emails but their classroom laptops are Windows 7.

 

Knowing our staff, I think the set up needs to be easily managed as we only have a technician 1.5 days a week and have 600+ pupils. Sadly, our ICT suite was removed last year without any infrastructure in place. I do have the option of visiting schools and will most certainly have yearly staff training on whatever products that we invest in.

[Brimstone]

I'm always a bit concerned when I hear "We need ipads….or wifi….or laptops....one to one scheme...or "

 

I always think these things need to be driven by what you want students to achieve....and hopefully that is ICT skills...and programming skills...

 

 

ICT and programming skills.....and the rest!

 

Critical thinking, presentation, collaboration, independent learning, saving on teacher workloads, better school communication, increased parental engagement and school stakeholders etc.

[TMBS]

We were looking into this a few years ago and decided to go down the Chromebook route; much cheaper (£200 per device inc licence), easy to manage and use. We've been using for four years now and they're still working brilliantly. We have approximately 200 around school and have gone down the Google Edu accounts for all staff/students which gives them all unlimited cloud, Google equivalent of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Classroom for teachers to share resources with students and set home. I can't recommend enough and once you've paid for the device and licence it's free! We used a company called C-Learning (https://www.c-learning.net) who give you a class set to trial too. The Dell 11s are rugged and make for school use too, we've only had two damages.

 

Not sure where you're based but you're welcome to come and see our setup.

[christhetech]

Hi Chris,

 

The charge trolleys have been quoted at £595. Installation for two engineers is £1100. Staff training is £395 for a half day and £695 for a full day.

 

I should add the total with support, cases etc. is £31,000 without VAT.

 

That sounds a little more sensible tbh. £595 each for charging trolleys is not excessive.

The staff training is something that I would be pulling the supplier up on though. When you are buying a quantity of Apple equipment, Apple will generally provide a training session for free, rather than giving big discounts. When I worked for a managed service provider, we used to get a days training from Apple for free every time placed an order for around 50 units, which we would generally set up at one of the purchasing schools and invite the others too as a bit of value add. We never hid it from the schools that the training was in lieu of discounts and was provided for free. They would always take us up on the offer, as it was costing them absolutely nothing.

If you are looking at purchasing 90 iPads in one big chunk, tell the reseller to pull their finger out and get you a few days Apple training thrown in or you're going to buy Chromebooks instead. I'd wager that they will very quickly knock the training costs off the bill.

[Brimstone]

Hi Chris,

 

The charge trolleys have been quoted at £595. Installation for two engineers is £1100. Staff training is £395 for a half day and £695 for a full day.

 

I should add the total with support, cases etc. is £31,000 without VAT.

The installation price is a joke, using all the available Apple tools such as Apple School Manager, DEP and a good MDM with AD Authentication you can deploy all of these yourself in one morning, have a deployment day getting students to activate them. Saves massive amounts on the time.

 

When you buy more than 25 x iPads from an Apple Education Solution Expert you would get a subsidy so training at first would be free.

[Brimstone]

ChromeOS is designed to be managed on an enterprise scale. You also get guaranteed software updates for quite a long period. https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en

So is iOS and you get free software updates forever...

[AlanD]

So is iOS and you get free software updates forever...

 

Yes there are MDM solutions for iOS...for "enterprise" management...including Apple's "free" Configurator and Profile Manager.

 

The trouble is...that these tools are essentially after thoughts - applied to a device that was originally designed for one user. The moment you start wanting to share that device in a school the gotchas creep out of hiding. To start with when a user has logged onto something (Office 365, or email) inevitably they forget to logout...and the next user has access to their files and emails. You can use things like Apple's Classroom manager...but you need to allocated 2 or maybe 4GB of iPad space to each user. That means 16GB devices are unusable , and even 32GB can be a problem - especially when you start adding the dozen or more apps teachers requires. And you don't get free updates forever - only as long as Apple keeps releasing them for that device - and there are lots of ipads in schools stuck on iOS 9.4 because it Apple chose not to support older devices....which in turn means that some apps won't sun on them (usually the ones you would like to have).

 

No; I agree Android is no better on these fronts.

[Mumm-Ra]

We were looking into this a few years ago and decided to go down the Chromebook route; much cheaper (£200 per device inc licence), easy to manage and use. We've been using for four years now and they're still working brilliantly. We have approximately 200 around school and have gone down the Google Edu accounts for all staff/students which gives them all unlimited cloud, Google equivalent of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Classroom for teachers to share resources with students and set home. I can't recommend enough and once you've paid for the device and licence it's free! We used a company called C-Learning (https://www.c-learning.net) who give you a class set to trial too. The Dell 11s are rugged and make for school use too, we've only had two damages.

 

Not sure where you're based but you're welcome to come and see our setup.

 

This is very helpful. I am based in Essex.

[Mumm-Ra]

The installation price is a joke, using all the available Apple tools such as Apple School Manager, DEP and a good MDM with AD Authentication you can deploy all of these yourself in one morning, have a deployment day getting students to activate them. Saves massive amounts on the time.

 

When you buy more than 25 x iPads from an Apple Education Solution Expert you would get a subsidy so training at first would be free.

 

This seller was direct from Apple and they have two more who are requesting callbacks.

[Mumm-Ra]

Yes there are MDM solutions for iOS...for "enterprise" management...including Apple's "free" Configurator and Profile Manager.

 

The trouble is...that these tools are essentially after thoughts - applied to a device that was originally designed for one user. The moment you start wanting to share that device in a school the gotchas creep out of hiding. To start with when a user has logged onto something (Office 365, or email) inevitably they forget to logout...and the next user has access to their files and emails. You can use things like Apple's Classroom manager...but you need to allocated 2 or maybe 4GB of iPad space to each user. That means 16GB devices are unusable , and even 32GB can be a problem - especially when you start adding the dozen or more apps teachers requires. And you don't get free updates forever - only as long as Apple keeps releasing them for that device - and there are lots of ipads in schools stuck on iOS 9.4 because it Apple chose not to support older devices....which in turn means that some apps won't sun on them (usually the ones you would like to have).

 

No; I agree Android is no better on these fronts.

 

I have to be honest and don't think we will be in a position to set up individual pupil accounts with teachers sharing homework etc. Currently, they just log on as different year groups. Although we have a new website, ParentMail, online payments, this is still in its infancy stage.

[TMBS]

This is very helpful. I am based in Essex.

 

We're in Leicestershire, not sure if that's too far for you but you're welcome anytime )

[Stevecee]

 

The coding program that we follow is Web based. We also use TimesTables Rockstars and EducationCity which are the same. The tablets are likely to be for these purposes on the whole. However, cameras, recording etc. may be required depending on the teachers' topics. They may also be used for interventions such as translation for EAL pupils.

 

Just a quick heads up I believe Education City uses Flash and wants you to use puffin browser as a proxy, many LA's don't allow this and it could be a problem getting them to allow you.

 

Steve

[sted]

Just a quick heads up I believe Education City uses Flash and wants you to use puffin browser as a proxy, many LA's don't allow this and it could be a problem getting them to allow you.

 

Steve

 

education city does use flash and i wouldnt allow anyone to use puffin browser as iirc it renders pages elsewhere so presumably bypassing all your filters

[AlanD]

The puffin academy app is probably save to use - as that only allows users to a selected list of sites. And its free....

 

But yes, it would be good if education city, mymaths, and others stopped using flash and did everything with HTML 5.

[Brimstone]

Yes there are MDM solutions for iOS...for "enterprise" management...including Apple's "free" Configurator and Profile Manager.

 

The trouble is...that these tools are essentially after thoughts - applied to a device that was originally designed for one user. The moment you start wanting to share that device in a school the gotchas creep out of hiding. To start with when a user has logged onto something (Office 365, or email) inevitably they forget to logout...and the next user has access to their files and emails. You can use things like Apple's Classroom manager...but you need to allocated 2 or maybe 4GB of iPad space to each user. That means 16GB devices are unusable , and even 32GB can be a problem - especially when you start adding the dozen or more apps teachers requires. And you don't get free updates forever - only as long as Apple keeps releasing them for that device - and there are lots of ipads in schools stuck on iOS 9.4 because it Apple chose not to support older devices....which in turn means that some apps won't sun on them (usually the ones you would like to have).

 

No; I agree Android is no better on these fronts.

 

Not a single "enterprise" that I deal with regularly uses any of Apple's own tools for deployment, hell even Apple themselves don't use these tools themselves to manage their Macs and iPads. These tools are afterthoughts because Apple don't recommend you use them, they are "proof of concept" tools at best. I've not touched Apple Configurator for at least 2 years in deploying iPads or iPhones as DEP has been out for so long and saves mountains of time.

 

in an "enterprise" environment you don't see "hotdesking" with iPads, it never happens. If you're an enterprise you want a robust tool that can not only deal with iOS but macOS as well and do it properly to get away from old hat imaging tools that are a pain and a time hungry resource.

 

As far as Apple Classroom is concerned I don't how many times I've now said this in threads but you confusing Apple Classroom when what you really mean is Shared iPad. These are 2 completely separate Apple tools, Apple Classroom can be run with or without Shared iPad. I've got plenty of primary schools happily using 32GB Shared iPads, many of these forward thinking schools have just refreshed them.

 

As for your 16GB likely iPad 2 devices, these were discontinued 4 years ago and won't even support Apple Classroom just like your old PC's that won't run Win10.

 

Again forward thinking schools have been trading these in and getting up to £40.00 back for each old iPad 2 to replace for a brand new one. I doubt your Chromebooks are worth a single penny after that time.