CCTV installers in the North West?

[dgsmith]

We have been for the last few months pondering our upgrade options on an old analogue BNC CCTV system. The cost to upgrade entirely to IP (despite having IP cameras on a separate, internal system) was deemed beyond any realistic budget. I noticed recently there is now HD over analogue, and hikvision seemed to be the best option, but acquiring their kit now may be a struggle since their decision to sell to trade only!

 

We were looking at trade installers anyway for ongoing support and perhaps installation (but not the initial purchase), however we may now need to consider the purchasing too.

We understandably need to get prices/quotes from various companies rather than just a single one, and I just wondered if there are any recommendations for suppliers/installers/ongoing support, particularly for a project involving analogue HD upgrade?

 

I can't see any credible alternative to hikvision that is readily available, well supported and cost effective though!

[difinity]

I've seen HD over analogue (not hikvision) when I worked at a CCTV place for a few months. Whilst the image size fits the HD description 1920x1080 the image quality was no better than the poor image quality analogue over BNC system that was sold as an upgrade as it was still subject to interference and image quality loss due to the length of the cables.

I left due to poor business practices.

 

Before committing to anything I would want to see the image quality first. HD refers to image size and makes no guarantee of image quality.

[Katy]

If you're getting a CCTV company in to do the install won't they be able to get the hikvision kit, being that they are a trade installer?

We did a DIY install with 38 hikvision cameras a couple of years ago, the image quality on 2MP/3MP HD IP cameras is amazing compared to our old Panasonic (640x480px) IP system and miles better than the old BNC at our previous second site.

[dgsmith]

Before committing to anything I would want to see the image quality first.

 

That goes without saying It may even be we look to run a functional system for a period before making any decision, although as we'd be looking to do a phased upgrade, we'd likely operate existing cameras over a transitional period.

 

If you're getting a CCTV company in to do the install won't they be able to get the hikvision kit, being that they are a trade installer?

We did a DIY install with 38 hikvision cameras a couple of years ago, the image quality on 2MP/3MP HD IP cameras is amazing compared to our old Panasonic (640x480px) IP system and miles better than the old BNC at our previous second site.

 

Yes, however we often find markups for the same equipment that we can usually acquire ourself (there is no practical difference between us buying the kit at X, and having it provided by installer at X +5%). Also as we'd likely just be getting a box and 1 or 2 new cameras additionally, there is little room for negotiation on equipment price from an installer.

We do have an IP system as well, entirely separate, so know what the image quality is like with IP megapixel cameras. Unfortunately, we simply haven't the budget for a full-scale re-cabling job, let alone replacing all the cameras on the analogue system too!

[HC_Netman]

Highly recommend Topological - Topological - ICT. Networking, Cabling, Visitor Management, Support : Cheshire, The Wirral, Merseyside they look after a number of things here including CCTV. They supply Hikvision cameras, do full installations and offer ongoing support.

[FN-GM]

PM Sent

[dgsmith]

Thanks for this. Hopefully if we can get others to work along the lines we're thinking then we can make some headway!

[Katy]

Yes, however we often find markups for the same equipment that we can usually acquire ourself (there is no practical difference between us buying the kit at X, and having it provided by installer at X +5%). Also as we'd likely just be getting a box and 1 or 2 new cameras additionally, there is little room for negotiation on equipment price from an installer.

That's true, we got all our hikvision from one of our usual IT distributor/resellers (forgot which one but doubt they can get it any more) and did a self install, I'm not sure what other budget kit is out there so you might find hikvision bought through the installer is cheaper than anything else you can get (panasonic or samsung etc) but as you say you're doing it bit at a time.... no useful suggestions I'm afraid

[thebatman]

RAW Electrical and Security is one we use, RAW Electrical and Security

[Blue_Cookeh]

Stick to IP, do it yourself. We like Ubiquiti

[dgsmith]

you might find hikvision bought through the installer is cheaper than anything else you can get

 

Pretty much what I am thinking too - a marked-up hikvision price may still be cheaper than other larger known brands, yet financially, I worked on the basis of buying the kit ourself, so it would be the difference between it being viable or not.

 

Stick to IP, do it yourself. We like Ubiquiti

 

The cost to upgrade entirely to IP (despite having IP cameras on a separate, internal system) was deemed beyond any realistic budget.

 

Cost of acceptable IP camera is over £200, plus cabling, additional poe switches and time. Cost of HD-TVI camera.. alot less than £200, using existing cabling (if still ok quality), no new switches and less time. Difference between "would like" and "can get".

[difinity]

Before committing to anything I would want to see the image quality first. HD refers to image size and makes no guarantee of image quality.

 

I was suggesting buying one off ebay/supplier and connecting it before getting quotes and looking for installers etc.

My experience with non IP cameras especially over long runs was not good.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Pretty much what I am thinking too - a marked-up hikvision price may still be cheaper than other larger known brands, yet financially, I worked on the basis of buying the kit ourself, so it would be the difference between it being viable or not.

 

 

 

Cost of acceptable IP camera is over £200, plus cabling, additional poe switches and time. Cost of HD-TVI camera.. alot less than £200, using existing cabling (if still ok quality), no new switches and less time. Difference between "would like" and "can get".

 

We were buying 1080p 30fps cameras (with acceptable IR for night) for £90 a pop... a box of 300ft Cat6 cable is what, £40? You likely already have PoE switches for your WAPs. Obviously I don't know your environment, but it's not completely unrealistic.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Blue_Cookeh

[use-IP]

Your scenario, when it is difficult or expensive to re-cable is the perfect application for HD over co-ax.

HikVision use a technology known as TVI.

Dahua use CVI.

Not to be confused with inferior earlier solutions and/or AHD.

They have now engineered their way past the earlier cable length limitations, and poor video performance, noisy signals etc.

If you are buying now, I'd look for HikVision Turbo 4.0 based solutions - Hikvision Europe

Make sure you get a Turbo 4.0 DVR and cameras.

Don't bother trying to mix & match technologies i.e. trying to add IP cameras to your Turbo DVR - the hybrid recorders (which will do analogue and IP are expensive, and have strict limitations to how many IP cameras and what resolution cameras you can add).

NB - Power over Co-ax (PoC) is now a thing too!

I'm sure you will be able to find a way to purchase Hik Turbo, any manufacturer who ends-up with 47,000 listings for their product on ebay UK is not very good at enforcing their supply chain rules!