Looking at new MIS' - Bromcom, SIMS, RM, Pupil Asset

[pcstru]

I don't think changing MIS is any more massive than changing other integral systems. You're right it's all about training and support, but also the needs of schools (more crucially) have changed or are changing.

IMO it is a much bigger undertaking because very distinct, highly configured (detailed, often dependent on individual field attributes), business processes hang off it and, through the MIS, integrate with other processes. Then there are often many years of historical data, the context of which changes year on year - which almost certainly was a challenge to fit into the DB at the time and might be a significant challenge years later as a data transfer exercise. I can't think of another system in a school have the reach and impact of the MIS and the difference in scale is quite significant.

[Michael]

IMO it is a much bigger undertaking because very distinct, highly configured (detailed, often dependent on individual field attributes), business processes hang off it and, through the MIS, integrate with other processes. Then there are often many years of historical data, the context of which changes year on year - which almost certainly was a challenge to fit into the DB at the time and might be a significant challenge years later as a data transfer exercise. I can't think of another system in a school have the reach and impact of the MIS and the difference in scale is quite significant.

 

But that's not to say it's impossible, as schools are planning and changing as we speak!

[Michael]

IMO it is a much bigger undertaking because very distinct, highly configured (detailed, often dependent on individual field attributes), business processes hang off it and, through the MIS, integrate with other processes. Then there are often many years of historical data, the context of which changes year on year - which almost certainly was a challenge to fit into the DB at the time and might be a significant challenge years later as a data transfer exercise. I can't think of another system in a school have the reach and impact of the MIS and the difference in scale is quite significant.

 

Another angle to look at it is if you're a MAT. If you've got a handful of schools using different MIS systems or Assessment systems etc... then something's got to give. It makes no financial sense as you have separate contracts/agreements and it makes no operational sense in terms of the trust supporting schools.

[vikpaw]

But it's not as easy as dragging all of my data into a .pst file and moving it another system, which I've happily been doing for over 10 years including to and from other non-M$ systems.

I think it should be done but it's not a change to make lightly.

[elsiegee40]

We're in danger of going off topic here.

 

OP has quite clearly stated this is a LA school. MAT decisions are not relevant here

[deshills]

Quite keen on this thread as both a proud Yorkshireman and current Bromcom user so thought i would give honest assessment!

 

We have just reached the 6 months mark since we moved all of our schools (40+) from a combination of CMIS and SIMS schools to Bromcom.

 

I have to confess, that at the start of the process, we were not even aware of Bromcom, and being very very proficient in CMIS and SIMS, I/we were not keen to move at all!!!

However, i can honestly say that the transition has been a largely positive one and has been well received by all of our schools.

 

Of course we have had issues due to the scale of the project, but what has impressed us the most is their willingness to resolve any issues that we throw at them. (and i speak to them daily!)

 

In terms of the migration, we migrated all 40+ schools in 3 months, and trained 1000's of teaching and non teaching staff in that time. This was achieved with only 3 people working on it at my end, and a small team at Bromcom. We did this in 3 phases of 3/4 schools per week.

 

The migration process was seamless for all but one school which was down to a timetable issue in Nova. In this instance we pushed them back to a later phase and caught up later in the project.

 

In terms of money saved, because of the scale of our operation, we have made significant savings in terms of licensing costs, infrastructure and in administration time.

 

A lot of the processes in Bromcom are very similar to SIMS, so our SIMS schools found the move alot easier than our CMIS colleagues.

 

In terms of the downsides, i do not think the timetable software is as good as it could be, there needs to be some work done there, however, you can use Nova which is popular among our old SIMS staff.

 

The assessment system is almost identical to SIMS, and again this is something i do not like (neither in SIMS nor Bromcom).

Bromcom to their credit have taken our feedback and have done alot of work to improve this area of the system, so until we get into full flow with the new design, i cant really comment on that, but the first term (Autumn) was a nightmare setting up 40+ schools from central head office.

 

For me, the best 3 things we have found with our change to Bromcom are:

1. The migration process - almost no work for us to do as its all handled by them (you just have to make sure your pre-testing is spot on!)

2. The system is set up so that technical staff and non technical staff are able to find their way around the system quite easily (note: their training manuals are in need of an update (they are pretty poor) and they have taken that feedback on board too and have started rolling these out - we ended up writing our own!!)

3. Their willingness to improve the system is refreshing. Unlike CMIS/Progress (and i must confess i loved CMIS and hated Progresso) and SIMS who don't seem to take on board feedback that much, Bromcom are committed to listening to ideas and evolving the system. If they rest on their laurels and think they system is perfect it will not work. If they listen to customers, and sensibly implement new ideas and features then it will thrive. We are just as committed here to help them to achieve the best they can!

 

When the decision was made to move MIS I simply wanted a solution that was as good as our ‘current’ MIS provider, however, I honestly believe that as long as Bromcom continue that commitment to keep improving the system, we have found a solution that is much better.

 

Happy to discuss further with anyone who wants to know more, both the negatives and the positives of the move.

Derek

[Bromcom_John]

And just to confirm the "we are listening" comment.

Thanks for the encouraging feedback Derek.

Warts and All

 

Looking forward to maintaining a long and productive relationship.

 

Would obviously love to say more, but won't.

I will ask the OP to make sure they are sending a representative to the presentations that the LA organised that our team (and others) are feverishly delivering this week.

 

John

[zag]

Listening to feedback is the single biggest thing that any MIS provider can do to topple Sims.

 

I'm glad to hear other providers are catching up.

 

Sims have been so slow in releasing their cloud version, that there has been a gap in the market for a while.

 

I personally would not be buying a locally hosted Sims version at this point in the technology life cycle as things are clearly moving to the cloud in the future.

[Banjo]

I still think waiting is your best option. Capita are close to releasing the next version of SIMS. It might or might not have been worth the wait -time will tell, but they are currently the biggest player in the market, so it makes sense to see what they can offer.

I didn't go to BETT so they might have shown a demo of SiMS8 on their stand to give schools a flavour of whats to come or they might be playing their cards very close to their chest.

[markberry]

Capita are close to releasing the next version of SIMS.

 

I remember back in about 2002 we moved to CMIS. At the time everyone was saying that Capita were close to releasing a version with no DOS modules. Quite a few years later they were still running some modules in DOS.

 

We are currently looking at moving to a new MIS. We moved from CMIS to Progresso a few years ago and while the process wasn't easy it wasn't too bad. Progresso no longer meets our needs and we need something that gives more people more meaningful information in a simpler way.

 

I'm really encouraged by reading how Bromcom manage the migration process and by their post implementation support.

 

One of my biggest concerns is how Bromcom connects to all our other systems. We currently have around 8/9 other systems which connect and would hate to have to start manually importing and exporting data between systems. Does anyone have any experience of this?

[deshills]

I remember back in about 2002 we moved to CMIS. At the time everyone was saying that Capita were close to releasing a version with no DOS modules. Quite a few years later they were still running some modules in DOS.

 

We are currently looking at moving to a new MIS. We moved from CMIS to Progresso a few years ago and while the process wasn't easy it wasn't too bad. Progresso no longer meets our needs and we need something that gives more people more meaningful information in a simpler way.

 

I'm really encouraged by reading how Bromcom manage the migration process and by their post implementation support.

 

One of my biggest concerns is how Bromcom connects to all our other systems. We currently have around 8/9 other systems which connect and would hate to have to start manually importing and exporting data between systems. Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

Are you referring to 3rd party applications (like homework, communication tools etc?)

If so, it was a concern we had, and they told us at the tender stage that their API was open to almost all 3rd parties and that they would work with those they didn't have a prior agreement with to facilitate us.

However, in the last year i can honestly say that we have replaced almost all of our 3rd parties with the features in Bromcom. Those that didnt exist, like evidence recording for EYFS assessment, we have actually designed and they have built into Bromcom for us. We never used 3rd party analysis systems as we had our own, and Bromcom are currently building our analysis tool into their system for us, which is an exciting development!

Dropping the 3rd parties has saved us a huge amount across our estate.

One thing they dont have a replacement for is CPOMS (which is very popular in our schools) and the link with ParentPay is not great.

[markberry]

Are you referring to 3rd party applications (like homework, communication tools etc?)

 

Yeah it's all the things like Cashless catering, ParentPay, Frog, VivoMiles etc.

[deshills]

Yeah it's all the things like Cashless catering, ParentPay, Frog, VivoMiles etc.

 

Not sure about VIVO as we got rid of that when we was CMIS, so someone else may be able to advise. One of our schools use Frog with Bromcom, but again its not something we use widely. ParentPay has been a bit of a pain, but i this has been down to lack of development at ParentPay on the integrations. We have pushed both sides but ParentPay havent been that responsive.

 

Our main savings have been on Primary tools (CM, 2Build) and at secondary all communication/MMS and homework tools have been dropped.

 

I think you'll find Bromcom very willing when it comes to integrations and opening their API to 3rd parties.

They need to link to all the systems you noted to make them an attractive alternative dont they!

[markberry]

That's a great help, thank you.

 

Do you know if they allow school's to connect to the API themselves? We were in the process or creating something to automatically provision AD and Office365 users via the Progresso API but have abandoned that once we thought we might move elsewhere.

[deshills]

Yeah we have something set up where our AD/365 is all automated from Bromcom (via Xvault i believe - but dont quote me 100% on that)

If you want to email me privately, i can get our IT director to advise you on the solution he has set up with Bromcom on that.

[markberry]

That would be good, drop me a PM Edited March 17, 2017 by elsiegee40

[zag]

Parentpay not working nicely is a bit of a dealbreaker for most people I would imagine.

 

It's one of the most popular cashless systems.

[pcstru]

Parentpay not working nicely is a bit of a dealbreaker for most people I would imagine.

It's one of the most popular cashless systems.

Works fine for us.

 

Do you know if they allow school's to connect to the API themselves?

Yes - well, they do let us use it.

[markberry]

Parentpay not working nicely is a bit of a dealbreaker for most people I would imagine.

 

Not at all. The most important aspect is the MIS. If ParentPay doesn't want to play nicely then we'll get those services elsewhere.

 

Bromcom have just told me they have their own version of ParentPay coming soon!

[Ms_Kuk]

We are currently looking at moving to a new MIS. We moved from CMIS to Progresso a few years ago and while the process wasn't easy it wasn't too bad. Progresso no longer meets our needs and we need something that gives more people more meaningful information in a simpler way.

I'm really encouraged by reading how Bromcom manage the migration process and by their post implementation support.

One of my biggest concerns is how Bromcom connects to all our other systems. We currently have around 8/9 other systems which connect and would hate to have to start manually importing and exporting data between systems. Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

We're in a similar position. Can you summarise why you think Bromcom is the way forward?

[bigdannyb79]

have a demo and you'll see - every school is different so it must match to your specific needs. But I liked the accessibility and intuitiveness of Bromcom and they appear to be investing in the product and listening to their customers. On seeing some other products I didn't see much progress from when I had used them years before and accessible isn't a word I would use to describe the interface. I think SIMS is well used in a lot of places due to familiarity not through the software being easy to use. I got dizzy be taken through some of the routines and I'm an IT geek so didnt fancy launching it to a school that has no prior experience. Also Bromcom seemed to offer value for money also and most products when compared to SIMS where significantly cheaper and I could only see that gap widening with a multitude of bolt ons and partner products to fulfill all needs.

 

I'd suggest just do a market review and get them all in - then do a longer detailed session with key leads in areas with the front runners. Its a big change so it needs thinking through but at the same time if there is a better product out there for you the benefits will be realised in a matter of months and even with a period of disruption at changeover thats better than perpetually sticking with a solution out of habit or fear of change.

[Ms_Kuk]

Thanks

[markberry]

We're in a similar position. Can you summarise why you think Bromcom is the way forward?

 

Completely agree you need to see it. I had my first demo yesterday after initially leaving it with SLT and the Data Manager to look at the alternatives. They had come to the conclusion that Bromcom was the preferred option. I was sceptical still thinking SIMS was probably the best option but after seeing it working in a school I was completely won over. Every area worked well and any that didn't quite meet our needs are currently being updated and will be ready in the next release in March.

[Banjo]

I remember back in about 2002 we moved to CMIS. At the time everyone was saying that Capita were close to releasing a version with no DOS modules. Quite a few years later they were still running some modules in DOS.

 

This is past the planning stage or a PowerPoint, Capita have shown it live at demos.

[matt40k]

This is past the planning stage or a PowerPoint, Capita have shown it live at demos.

Define live demo? Can you drive the demo or are you locked to controlled "demo" that isn't really anything more then a interactive video? Also demo is very different to been in production for years and years and years