Windows 10 LTSB - Any reason not to use it?

[Sam_Brown]

Just because MS say there are few scenarios where LTSB would work doesn't mean I agree with them!

[sparkeh]

We are sticking with Education. Removing apps is trivial and an upgrade every year isn't the end of the world. We usually end up doing reimaging over the summer.

 

Personally I think staying pace with new windows features is something we should be doing. I don't really want to say to people they can't use something because I decided they were better off without it.

But I may, of course, change my mind in the future.

[Arthur]

I think you are getting mixed up with Windows Embedded OS and LTSB. Embedded OS is for ATMs etc.

LTSB can also be installed on ATMs.

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/plan/windows-10-servicing-options

 

Long-Term Servicing Branch. For critical or specialized devices (for example, operation of factory floor machinery, point-of-sale systems, automated teller machines), the Long-Term Servicing Branch (LTSB) provides a version of Windows 10 Enterprise that receives no new features, while continuing to be supported with security and other updates for a long time. (Note that the Long-Term Servicing Branch is a separate Windows 10 Enterprise image, with many in-box apps, including Microsoft Edge, Cortana, and Windows Store, removed).

 

From the same link...

 

Note that there are few, if any, scenarios where an entire organization would use the Long-Term Servicing Branch for all PCs – or even for a majority of them.

[Arthur]

You are creating work for yourself not using LTSB. Good luck with all your big updates every 9 months that reinstall half of the OS

It's 12-14 months now. Surely that's long enough to upgrade?

 

Microsoft dials back Windows 10 upgrades to 2X a year « Computerworld

 

Microsoft has scaled back its Windows 10 release schedule to two feature upgrades annually, not the three per year it once said was its plan.

 

The Redmond, Wash. company has hinted since November that it would cut back on the number of Windows 10 upgrades. That's when it began to refer to the schedule as "two to three times per year," rather than the solid three-times-a-year pace it had talked up before Windows 10's official release.

 

But in a presentation at the WinHEC technical conference in Taiwan last month, Microsoft provided its hardware partners and third-party developers a more definitive release cadence for Windows 10.

 

"Targeting twice per year with new capabilities," Microsoft said of Windows 10's servicing strategy in a slide presented by Chris Riggs, senior program manager, as part of a larger deck about "Windows as a Service" (WaaS) -- Microsoft's label for the new maintenance model.

 

On another slide, Riggs laid out the schedule of each major upgrade: For the first four months after debut, each build will be pushed only to consumers and those businesses that have adopted the faster "Current Branch" (CB) release track.

 

After its four-month life in the CB, the upgrade will be promoted to the "Current Branch for Business" (CBB), the track that companies are expected to assign to the bulk of their PCs.

 

That build will be available to deploy and use for the next 12 months, with a 60-day grace period tacked to the end. The grace period gives businesses time to migrate to the next build before Microsoft pulls the patch plug on the predecessor, halting delivery of security updates and other bug fixes.

 

In total, then, corporate PCs will run each CBB anywhere from 12 to 14 months, with the latter including the 2-month grace period.

 

https://sec.ch9.ms/slides/winHEC/3_01_WaaSServicing.pdf

 

http://i.cubeupload.com/54cgn0.png

 

http://i.cubeupload.com/IjtElo.png

[Blue_Cookeh]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that deployed Education! I was getting a bit worried there

[Sheridan]

We're stuck between a rock and hard place. LTSB is the only version that actually works without all the crap, but apparently we're not 'supposed' to use it. The version that was supposed to be ideal for us, Education, is a bloaty mess that will need reimaging twice a year. Talk about 1 step forward and 10 steps back.

 

In my mind , 'Windows as a service' does not mean reimaging our pc stock twice a year.

[thimon]

LTSB is the only version that actually works without all the crap

 

Remove all the crap?

[Blue_Cookeh]

We're stuck between a rock and hard place. LTSB is the only version that actually works without all the crap, but apparently we're not 'supposed' to use it. The version that was supposed to be ideal for us, Education, is a bloaty mess that will need reimaging twice a year. Talk about 1 step forward and 10 steps back.

 

In my mind , 'Windows as a service' does not mean reimaging our pc stock twice a year.

 

Who's reimaging PCs? It's an update you can deploy. Funnily enough see HERE about reinstalling apps.

 

I don't get why people are making a big deal out of the Modern Apps, we have a script in our SCCM TS to remove them, it probably adds <1 min to our deployment time.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[sparkeh]

It's 12-14 months now. Surely that's long enough to upgrade?

You would think. Given that a lot of us here planned, tested and deployed Windows 10 in less time than that I am surprised that this is causing such a fuss.

I guess its the usual inertia when there's a change to a long standing mindset. Personally I find moving to Windows as a service is a good thing and should be embraced. Take a look at how SCCM works now, no longer do we have to wait years for a new version with new licencing and cost, new features are added with a simple upgrade. Its great.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that deployed Education! I was getting a bit worried there

Not by a long shot. Lots of people here have deployed Education.

 

In my mind , 'Windows as a service' does not mean reimaging our pc stock twice a year.

It doesn't. Just deploy the upgrade once a year.

Edited May 25, 2016 by sparkeh

[Sheridan]

'Upgrade' - based on the last few these are enormous files and make it easier to reimage.

[ColinP]

Ive gone for LTSB. i dont give a monkeys what microsoft say, windows is just an OS, we dont actualy use it, we use office, gamemaker, videostudio etc ect.

 

Im unfortunate enough to have a windows 10 phone and every upgrade has introduced more bugs and anoyances, if you want to play roulette with your operating system install education or enterprise.

[Joanne]

 

Remove all the crap?

 

I tried, boy did I try and get on with the Education version, but EVERY. DAMN. TIME. I made an image it would not sysprep because of the stupid apps I had disabled. So I gave up. Then found about LTSB and never looked back.

[sted]

I tried, boy did I try and get on with the Education version, but EVERY. DAMN. TIME. I made an image it would not sysprep because of the stupid apps I had disabled. So I gave up. Then found about LTSB and never looked back.

 

remove them before making the image with dism.

get install.wim on a pc/server with wadk installed, open up a deployment services command prompt

 

dism /mount-wim /wimfile:d:\install.wim /index:1 /mountdir:d:\mount

wait

Dism.exe /image:d:\mount /Get-ProvisionedAppxPackages > d:\apps.txt

open up the apps.txt and find the ones you want to remove then I usually copy this + the app title to a batch file and run it

dism.exe /image:d:\mount /Remove-ProvisionedAppxPackage /PackageName:

then

dism.exe /unmount-wim /mountdir:d:\mount /commit

copy the install.wim to mdt/wds/pen drive deploy alter capture

[Joanne]

I will honestly look at this later and have a try. I fair don't understand much of it like...

[sted]

I will honestly look at this later and have a try. I fair don't understand much of it like...

in a nutshell mount the wim file as a folder structure you can edit

grab a list of all the provisioned appx packages (default install stuff) and dump it to a text file for easier use

remove package x from this offline folder structure

write changes back to the install.wim file so you can use it

[Arthur]

I made an image it would not sysprep because of the stupid apps I had disabled.

Did you open any of the apps or let them update? That could be why sysprep failed...

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/2769827

 

Just in case you decide to go back to the Education edition you may find this script useful.

[Joanne]

Did you open any of the apps or let them update? That could be why sysprep failed...

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/2769827

 

Just in case you decide to go back to the Education edition you may find this script useful.

 

Sometimes yes, to check it had worked. Sometimes no, because I knew it would break it.

[gshaw]

It's ridiculous W10 has been out for the best part of a year and still no-one from MS has come out and given any clear best-practice advice over which edition is a) supported and b) recommended by Microsoft. The fact we get both Education and LTSB is interesting in itself and the split of people using either edition is almost 50:50.

 

Almost seems to come down to this...

 

Do you want an OS that works without shedloads of bloat but isn't the official way of deploying? > LTSB

Do you want an OS with MS new features but isn't built correctly for the environment its being deployed in > Education

 

It's just crazy to ship Education and even worse, "Enterprise" editions of software with Candy Crush on the base image, would love to hear what big business make of that!

 

There's a good OS in there somewhere but MS really aren't helping people make the most of it right now imo.

[Joanne]

I guess this is what happens when they offer it for free... people pay them big bucks to ship their software in with the O/S

[Blue_Cookeh]

It's ridiculous W10 has been out for the best part of a year and still no-one from MS has come out and given any clear best-practice advice over which edition is a) supported and b) recommended by Microsoft. The fact we get both Education and LTSB is interesting in itself and the split of people using either edition is almost 50:50.

 

Almost seems to come down to this...

 

Do you want an OS that works without shedloads of bloat but isn't the official way of deploying? > LTSB

Do you want an OS with MS new features but isn't built correctly for the environment its being deployed in > Education

 

It's just crazy to ship Education and even worse, "Enterprise" editions of software with Candy Crush on the base image, would love to hear what big business make of that!

 

There's a good OS in there somewhere but MS really aren't helping people make the most of it right now imo.

 

They have?

 

Time and time again they have said LTSB is for highly available devices that don't change such as ATMs, PoS machines etc. They have forced Education on us by taking away Enterprise licensing from EES. They probably haven't given us an Education LTSB edition because it doesn't align with their business, and it keeps their SKU count down.

 

If I'm installing a piece of Digital Signage in our school? LTSB. If I'm deploying an IT suite? Education.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[gshaw]

Has anyone from the Education team ever come out and given this advice to schools etc? If so they should also be explaining why Education is filled with junk that directly goes against the needs of the environment it's being deployed to, which is pretty much the sole reason half the users on this site (judging by responses on these threads) are deploying LTSB instead.

 

Similarly it's the users that have been finding ways to strip the images back down to remove said junk rather than MS themselves. All these unnecessary issues aren't doing Microsoft any favours with capable competition getting better by the day.

[Arthur]

they should also be explaining why Education is filled with junk that directly goes against the needs of the environment it's being deployed to

Isn't it because the Education edition can also be installed on students own PCs? It's not solely for school computers.

 

• onthehub.com/windows-10-education-for-students/
  
• onthehub.com/blog/what-students-need-to-know-about-windows-10
  
• edugeek.net/s/news/521-microsoft-reply-your-mou-questions.html
   
  

  OVS-ES/EES is our main licensing program for Education, and this is where Microsoft invests heavily for example;
   
  

  • free Office for students and staff at eligible institutions,
    
  • free Intune for Students at schools who have licensed EMS/Intune for Staff
    
  • free Windows 10 Education for Students etc. etc.
    

MS could remove the built-in apps from the non-LTSB Enterprise edition so that we can use that and leave the Education edition for students and faculty.

[Sheridan]

Thats the thing, I'm happy to plan and deploy a new OS, with new features and ways of doing things but this isn't ready for mass deployment in many ways.

 

Of course some will say thats just me being against progress, far from it - I was expecting to start deploying 10 last year but a list of issues held us back. LTSB has addressed a lot of these issues but added the niggling element of doubt - it hasn't been updated since July 2015 so has the original bugs from the day 1 release!

[Joanne]

LTSB has addressed a lot of these issues but added the niggling element of doubt - it hasn't been updated since July 2015 so has the original bugs from the day 1 release!

 

True dat. The only bug that was holding me back was that you had to have a password to log on. So I've put passwords on all accounts now (Yes, yes, I know )

 

I've begun the upgrade and I've done about 30 machines so far.

[Arthur]

LTSB has addressed a lot of these issues but added the niggling element of doubt - it hasn't been updated since July 2015 so has the original bugs from the day 1 release!

That's always going to be the case. Even when LTSB+1 is released it's going to have bugs which have since been fixed in Redstone+1/+2.