edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 I will not name the company but they are one of the biggest in educational hardware sales. 3 years ago we got 6 new smartboard systems installed along with sound systems at a primary school. About 15 months later the amp power adapter Earth pin broke in the wall power socket. The amp is basically a volume button on the wall. Even though it was still under warranty we had lots of issues getting it fixed as the adapter was not a standard adapter and went directly into the back of the amp. This Month (about 3 years after install) we have had another two adapters fail with the Earth pin snapping off in the wall power sockets. The only time these adapters are un-plugged is so they can be pat tested, so it's not like they are getting pushed in and out all the time. The company have basically refused to supply a replacement, as they can no longer get the adapters. Am I right in thinking that under EU law the supplier have a duty of care to be able to replace parts for up to 6 years after sale, and they should be offering to replace these as they were effectively defective at the point of sale (half of the units sold have been faulty). Any advice would be most welcome.
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 Should have added that these adapters are not under warranty anymore.
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 How do you know the earth pin is broken? TT
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 Its snapped off and left behind in the mains socket
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 This happened on all 3 plugs
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 Basically the cable goes from the faulty plug directly into the mini amp and is not switchable with a replacement adapter. When we got one replaced under warranty they had to re-wire the internal amp system with the new cable / plug. If the school had to get something new it would mean replacing the entire amp system, just because of these faulty power plugs.
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 How do you know they are not taken out multiple times in a year, we had it all the time. TT
FN-GM Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 How do you know they are not taken out multiple times in a year, we had it all the time. TT Even so, this shouldn't happen.
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 What is the output? I would just find a suitable adapter of the correct voltage and with enough Amps to match or beat the old one ( assume AC output ) and solder the old cable to new and heatshrink. TT
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Even so, this shouldn't happen. But will if it's miss handled and that's not the liability of the supplier.
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 How do you know they are not taken out multiple times in a year, we had it all the time. They are on the wall under the teachers table with the projector power point and are not easily accessible. They have 4 other power points near the table for things like a laptop and other day to day items. You are right, I could not guarantee they never get removed but it would be very very limited.
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 I can't see straight inserts/removals causing a pin to fracture unless the grab force on the sockets earth pin was unusually very very high. If removal is awkward then it may have been pulled out at an angle.. I suspect many staff would just push it back in and not think about the fact the socket is now unsafe. TT
edutech4schools Posted February 25, 2016 Author Posted February 25, 2016 I can't see straight inserts/removals causing a pin to fracture That's the point, I believe they must be faulty or brittle at point of sale. The class would always need sound and a projector connected to teach each lesson and would have no reason to move the tables etc to get at a plug, when they have empty plug sockets that are much more accessible. They also remove their laptop power plug every single night to take them home and none of those have ever broken.
mrwoberts Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) I can't see very well from the picture you posted, but they look like a 'plastic' earth pin, which means the earth isn't even used, its purpose is to release the safety mechanism in the wall socket, over the live/neutral pins. So, what you have now is nothing too dissimilar from a European style two-pin plug. For example, the projectors or laptop chargers that have a figure-of-eight cable going to the wall do not use the earth pin, they are 'self-insulated'.... This is totally safe on devices that are designed that way, but you should see a double-insulated symbol somewhere on the adapter - look for a double square symbol on the side. However, best to ask the electrician who pat tested them. A Class II or double insulated electrical appliance is one which has been designed in such a way that it does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes#Class_II Not to down-play this annoyance, but if those are plastic earth pins I'd carry on using them, assuming the broken bit is still in the earth pin, and chalk this one down as an annoyance to which you've found a workaround. All the best. Edited February 25, 2016 by mrwoberts Wiki link
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Not to down-play this annoyance, but if those are plastic earth pins I'd carry on using them, assuming the broken bit is still in the earth pin, and chalk this one down as an annoyance to which you've found a workaround. All the best. Simply. No. The broken pin should be removed from the socket allowing the safety shutters to close, allowing it to remain is a H&S infringement. TT 1
difinity Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 They also remove their laptop power plug every single night to take them home and none of those have ever broken. Laptop plugs have proper earth pins with metal that give strength as well as provide an earth. This adapter looks like it had a fake plastic one ? The tall design looks like it would put strain on the pin if not pulled straight. Not the kids unplugging to charge their phones ?
snagrat Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Laptop plugs have proper earth pins with metal that give strength as well as provide an earth. This adapter looks like it had a fake plastic one ? The tall design looks like it would put strain on the pin if not pulled straight. Not the kids unplugging to charge their phones ? Not all laptops have metal earth pins at all. Most figure 8 cables I come across with laptops are plastic
elsiegee40 Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 The plastic earth pin is quite common on devices that don't reqiuire the earth. I haven't had one break on me yet and that does seem a high rate of failure
difinity Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Not all laptops have metal earth pins at all. Most figure 8 cables I come across with laptops are plastic Very true, thanks, I missed load in my pile whilst half asleep last night. Must have missed it in my PAT testing training too.
dry Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Not to down-play this annoyance, but if those are plastic earth pins I'd carry on using them, assuming the broken bit is still in the earth pin, and chalk this one down as an annoyance to which you've found a workaround. All the best. A big load of nope from me too. If the plug were to be removed, the Live and Neutral pins would be exposed (as safety shutters are open due to Earth pin remaining in socket) and would only need an inquisitive paperclip/compass to cause somebody to be shocked with 240v. The adaptor should be removed from the socket and the socket put out of action until the Earth pin can be removed safely. Sorry if that sounds a bit strong but it angers me when safety features are negated in the interests of convenience. See FatallyFlawed for dangers of opened shutters. Edited February 26, 2016 by dry 2
edutech4schools Posted February 26, 2016 Author Posted February 26, 2016 thanks for all the info so far, Just realized they were all installed Feb 2014 so only 2 years old and not 3, which makes this issue even worse. The company have said even if they wanted to help they could not as they can't get the adapters anymore. Do you think I should email them about EU law and keeping replacement parts for 6 years, and not being fit for purpose when sold, or just get replacement sound systems?
difinity Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Sounds like they are trying to fob you off. Adapter voltages are fairly standard and if the need soldering to the amp then the connector at the end isn't an issue. Do the adapters have any indication of Volts and Amps marked on them ?
mrwoberts Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I agree, my advice wasn't entirely thought through; please ignore post #14 Thanks for pointing that out.
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