[news] Man claiming to be Thor is arrested whilst messed up on bath salts.

[pcstru]

I would agree except that it works for me.

Isn't that kind of anecdotal 'evidence' exactly the sort of thing that persuades young girls to buy slimming pills from the internet? It says my experience beats science, encourages "magical thinking" of the "it just might work for me" kind?

Rheumatism is generally used for just common or garden aching bones, usually caused by changes in temperature, rather than Rheumatoid Arthritis in which joints swell and stiffen.

I agree that there is no evidence for copper helping any form of arthritis - and as I have it I would really really like it to.

Rheumatism seems to be heading for deprecation and as that article says "arthritis and rheumatism between them cover at least 200 different conditions". That actually might make it difficult to detect an effect in any small scale study which essentially covers many conditions, which makes it difficult to say that copper cannot have an effect but in the absence of evidence it is impossible to say it does (it really should show up in larger scale studies or the meta studies).

It is a very pretty bracelet so what the heck

Heh!

 

For anyone interested, the Chochrane Library is a good resource for information (usually available as plain English abstracts) on the efficacy of various Medical treatments, including studies on "alternative medicine".

[LosOjos]

I used to work on a market stall selling copper and magnetic bracelets. We regularly had customers coming back to tell us how much they'd helped, some swore by the copper, others by the magnets, some that one on each wrist was best, others on their ankles - we even had some claiming success with magnetic necklaces!

 

Is there any scientific evidence to support their claims? No. None. However, I do believe that they "worked" as a placebo because they were so popular; "if it works for Joe and his wife, it's bound to work for me!"

 

Now I can see why this can become dangerous ("Jill lost loads of weight taking those pills, I will too if I take double!") but unlike pills off the Internet, copper/magnets are not going to kill you.

 

So, placebo effect or not, I don't think there's anything evil about selling something harmless like a bracelet to people who believe it's helping, especially when that belief seems to be enough to actually help.

 

That said, I think chemists/pharmacies selling anything that hasn't been proven to work reliably and repeatedly under scientific studies is highly immoral; they should, in my opinion, stick to selling actual medicine and leave the homoeopathic stuff alone. Their stocking of it implies scientific proof.

 

Incidentally, and against my better judgement, when I was suffering from severe knee pain following a serious assault a few years ago, I tried out copper/magnetic bracelets/anklets. Didn't make a blind bit of difference for me, but then I didn't believe they would in the first place.

 

As they say, the mind is a powerful thing.

[pcstru]

Now I can see why this can become dangerous ("Jill lost loads of weight taking those pills, I will too if I take double!") but unlike pills off the Internet, copper/magnets are not going to kill you.

Perhaps they stop people seeking medical attention and perhaps in doing that, they miss the cancer than would be obvious to a real doctor and by the time they do resort to a Doctor, it is then too late. Pedantically, you might say that it wasn't the bracelet than killed them but the "try it, you have nothing to lose" might just be tragically wrong.

[Garacesh]

Couldn't have put it better myself @LosOjos. +Rep

Pharmacies should not be selling anything with no scientific backing.

 

The only thing I'm unsure of is claiming 'It helps!' when there's no scientific basis for it.. It sets a dangerous precedent that I personally believe encourages all these phoney diet pills and other drugs that, as you say, unfortunately have the potential to be much more harmful.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Garacesh

[LosOjos]

Perhaps they stop people seeking medical attention and perhaps in doing that, they miss the cancer than would be obvious to a real doctor and by the time they do resort to a Doctor, it is then too late. Pedantically, you might say that it wasn't the bracelet than killed them but the "try it, you have nothing to lose" might just be tragically wrong.

 

Perhaps that person wouldn't have spoken to anyone about it and died anyway, or perhaps in talking about getting a bracelet with friends/family/colleagues, one of them would have told him to go to a doctor, where they'd have spotted the condition early enough to save his life.

 

Let's not get in to hypothetical scenarios though; you can invent one for just about anything and they prove nothing.

[pcstru]

Perhaps that person wouldn't have spoken to anyone about it and died anyway, or perhaps in talking about getting a bracelet with friends/family/colleagues, one of them would have told him to go to a doctor, where they'd have spotted the condition early enough to save his life.

 

Let's not get in to hypothetical scenarios though; you can invent one for just about anything and they prove nothing.

They don't generally set out to prove things, they do usefully serve as falsification of something that is asserted as a logical truth, such as "there can be no harm in it". There are sadly too many examples of quack medicine stopping people seeking appropriate treatments with dangerous, sometimes fatal consequences. Copper bracelets may seem innocuous compared to (say) a chiropractor treating a headache or using their magical skills in place of (say) vaccination, but they do serve to distract people from seeking professional advice that may be vital. Quackery of any type is not without consequence.

[LiamH]

And Mercury will kill you if you ingest it (and can even be absorbed through the skin) but it's still used in vaccines. Just because something is used for one purpose, doesn't mean it's even remotely related to its function.

 

Full disclaimer, I actually have no idea what DNP is or exactly how it's used in explosives, but my point still stands.

 

Just want to clarify your point. Vaccines contain (or used to) Thiomersal which is a compound that contains mercury. The whole "vaccines have mercury! that's a poison!" is one of the main contributing arguments causing the whole anti-vax nonsense.

 

Oxygen is great, water is lovely, add another oxygen atom to H2O and you will be having a bad time...

[X-13]

add another oxygen atom to H2O and you will be having a bad time...

 

Which reminds me of a joke...

 

Two scientists walk into a bar. The first one says “I'll have some H2O.” The second one says, “I'll have some H2O too.” Then he dies.

[Garacesh]

Two scientists walk into a bar. The first one says “I'll have some H2O.” The second one says, “I'll have some H2O too.”

The bartender then looks at them peculiarly as everyone else just says "water" and serves them both. Nobody is harmed, because no bar ever would have Hydrogen Peroxide on tap.

[LiamH]

Which reminds me of a joke...

 

Two scientists walk into a bar. The first one says “I'll have some H2O.” The second one says, “I'll have some H2O too.” Then he dies.

 

I always heard it as..

 

Two chemists walk into a bar, the first one says "I'll have some H2O." The second one says, "I'll have some water too."

The first chemist is annoyed his assassination attempt failed.

 

Requires a bit more thinking to get it.

[Garacesh]

Just want to clarify your point. Vaccines contain (or used to) Thiomersal which is a compound that contains mercury. The whole "vaccines have mercury! that's a poison!" is one of the main contributing arguments causing the whole anti-vax nonsense..

Yeah, that was why it was the first example to spring to mind. Correlation does not equal causation, and one substance may have multiple legitimate uses. In this case, it turns out DNP will pretty much screw you up no matter how much you take, but that's why I included the part where I actually knew nothing of it.

 

My main point was that "She took DNP, which is used in explosives!" is scaremongering. Wood pulp is used in explosives but I don't see the SWAT team arresting our woodwork teacher.

 

"She took DNP, which is extremely toxic if ingested at even small doses." is a much better way to phrase your sentence.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Garacesh