School play pictures on Facebook

[GrumbleDook]

How does Gmail fit in with this? they push ads based on the context of your email and content so if you emailed the pictures/videos to other family members wouldn't they process it the same way as facebook?

 

Do we have evidence that Google scan and process the picture for any contained meta-data or facial recognition as part of this?

[GrumbleDook]

@rdk glad you think it is ok to possibly cause even further psychological harm to a child by restricting what they do ... remembering that these children are often in positions due to no fault of their own ... and there are plenty of reasons why families and schools work hard with these children so that they are not left feeling a victim!

 

Every circumstance is different and yes, some children will not take part in performances due to circumstances ... But most schools will move heaven and earth to do what they can for them, ranging from inventing characters which require costumes covering faces, etc through to choice of play / performance itself.

 

Back to reality though ... the restriction on pictures is not just for children where particular attention is needed, but a number of parents out there are also concerned that the lack of control of their children's images could create future issues ... everything has moved on so fast that we just don't know what the impact may be ... so some people want to go a bit slower whilst society tries to work through things. They are not Luddites or wanting to stop progress ... they just want to be able to look at all the options and make their *own* choice rather than one forced on them by others ... especially when it's being forced by the social media companies themselves ... who may be a little biased about what they want you to do with you information.

 

The premise of education rather than banning attempts to try to support that. No one said it would be easy, or that it wouldn't involve hard conversations with some families, but it is part of a larger drive to provide eSafety advice to families.

[rdk]

@rdk glad you think it is ok to possibly cause even further psychological harm to a child by restricting what they do ...

 

Go on then, ascribe a sentiment to me that I did not express. But in general terms, 1) grass is green 2) motherhood and apple pie are both nice 3) if you are in a school play someone will take your photo and it might ned up on social media regardless of your wishes.

 

Back to reality though ... the restriction on pictures is not just for children where particular attention is needed, but a number of parents out there are also concerned that the lack of control of their children's images could create future issues ... everything has moved on so fast that we just don't know what the impact may be ... so some people want to go a bit slower whilst society tries to work through things. They are not Luddites or wanting to stop progress ... they just want to be able to look at all the options and make their *own* choice rather than one forced on them by others ... especially when it's being forced by the social media companies themselves ... who may be a little biased about what they want you to do with you information.

 

Regardless of what you want, or would like, you have two choices. Ban photos altogether and enforce that ban, or expect that photos will appear on FB. No amount of education, pleading, cajoling, threatening etc will change that. Thinking it will is wishful thinking and you will end up being blamed if you pretend you can stop it and someone ends up unhappy.

[ZeroHour]

Do we have evidence that Google scan and process the picture for any contained meta-data or facial recognition as part of this?

 

I have seen people mention OCR against the file to target ad's anyway and metadata would be trivial to use also. I think they reserve the right anyway, does facebook process faces regardless of user account setting?

What about phones that auto upload/backup to Plus Photos? Plus does allow face tagging but I dont have android to test the workflow.

Actually with googles all in one terms does that mean technically ALL google services get the right even if they dont use it? aka drive etc.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ZeroHour

[jmak]

After speaking with our head, I have drafted a letter to be sent to parents. It's quite long, so I understand if you don't have time to read it, but I would be grateful for comments

 

TIA:

 

You may have seen articles in the press reporting that over a third of schools now

ban the taking of photographs at Christmas plays. We appreciate how valuable

photos can be as mementos of significant moments in your children's lives and are

very happy for you to take photos and videos of your own children during school

events for personal use and sharing with your family.

 

This year we have noticed that some photos and videos which include images of

multiple children have made their way onto social media (e.g. Facebook, Twitter,

Instagram). Once a photograph, or any other information, is shared online you must

accept that you lose control of its ownership and privacy.

 

Many parents and carers have taken the decision not to upload pictures of their

children onto social media. We ask you to respect this choice - a photo of a child is

their intellectual property and personal data and only their parent or guardian is

permitted to make choices about how this is property is shared or used.

 

This is not to say that you shouldn't share anything online - there can be great

benefits from the use of social media - but a reminder to carefully consider what you

share and how it might be used or abused.

 

There is a second important reason that we ask you not to do this: Child Protection.

There have been cases where children have been put at risk due to photographs

being published online which have allowed them to be identified and located. This

is unlikely, but the amount of potential harm is very significant.

 

Please ensure that any images which you upload to any social media platform only

show your own child. If you have already uploaded photos or videos which don't

comply with this policy, please remove them as soon as possible.

 

If this request is not followed, we will have no choice but to ban cameras from all

future school events.

[GrumbleDook]

Go on then, ascribe a sentiment to me that I did not express. But in general terms, 1) grass is green 2) motherhood and apple pie are both nice 3) if you are in a school play someone will take your photo and it might ned up on social media regardless of your wishes.

 

Yes, that was my bad to ascribe a sentiment to you that you did not express ... and I am sorry it was you that put up the stance that you did (I actually had my money on one of a few others), but I had been waiting for at least one person to say it. Now people might understand how some Social Workers, SENCOs, foster parents, adoptive parents, families who have moved away from abusive partners, etc might take what you have said. Please remember that although you may have meant your words to mean one thing, they could get interpreted by others as something different or even used by others to bolster their arguments. I did not troll lightly (and yes, it was trolling) but it was to make a point.

 

Regardless of what you want, or would like, you have two choices. Ban photos altogether and enforce that ban, or expect that photos will appear on FB. No amount of education, pleading, cajoling, threatening etc will change that. Thinking it will is wishful thinking and you will end up being blamed if you pretend you can stop it and someone ends up unhappy.

 

No, you have more than 2 choices. Saying that just because it is too hard to do anything so we will either just ban it or accept it ... that is a cop out. Life is full of having do deal with difficult things and trying to change the minds of others. This is just another example. It is not going to be perfect and will take a *lot* of hard work ... but that is why I said

Back to reality though ...

[GrumbleDook]

I have seen people mention OCR against the file to target ad's anyway and metadata would be trivial to use also. I think they reserve the right anyway, does facebook process faces regardless of user account setting?

What about phones that auto upload/backup to Plus Photos? Plus does allow face tagging but I dont have android to test the workflow.

Actually with googles all in one terms does that mean technically ALL google services get the right even if they dont use it? aka drive etc.

 

That raises interesting questions about services with combine lots of things together ... and I am not sure how carefully anyone has looked at the T&Cs for Google recently (there general accounts, not the GAfE accounts). There are the good guides out there about FaceBook and Twitter, etc ... but can't really find one for Google's general service.

 

One of the reasons why I have previously blogged about Apple T&Cs (IIRC it was for iBooks Author and linking it to the school, and then the impact it has on your personal AppleID if you publish things) and what they are actually covered for under Safe Harbor is that combined services can raise issues for what you are actually agreeing to (or what that agreement changes to when services change or are added to).

 

One to raise to UKSIC perhaps?

[esafety_officer]

Grumbledook has made many of the points I'd highlight with schools. I spoke to the ICO about this a few years ago and they told me (at the time) that parents posting photos on social media would be classed as personal use.

 

We have a policy about image use called ""The Use of Cameras and Images within Education Settings" which includes letters and posters etc for schools that cover this issue and you'd be welcome to use them. It's available here (towards the bottom third of the page)