Airport Extreme on an enterprise scale

[blundellm]

Our school is moving toward Apple tech (from Windows) and I would like, as far as possible, to reduce the number of different technologies that have to interact. So I'm keen to embrace Apple everywhere as far as it will go. We have fibre backbone across the campus, and I want to create a wireless network capable of handling up to 500 iPads, across 200 locations (boarding houses, classrooms, common areas etc).

 

I'm aware that everyone will chip in with their favourite network technology, but I can't find anyone who's used Apple Airport Extremes on any large scale. There may be good reasons for that, which I'd like to hear about. The final network I want to move to is: A minimal windows-based wired network for admin staff, a small component of wired macbooks and iMacs, and the majority on Apple ipads, using wireless.

 

Different vendors happily tout the brilliance of their products, and the weaknesses of the competition. I'm hoping someone out there has tried Apple Airport Extremes in the real world and can give me some advice from their experience.

 

1. Does Apple Airport scale in any way, or is it, like the rest of Apple, for home use in small networks?

2. I want to avoid the complexity of having controllers, vlans, etc.

3. We have a mac mini server, which I've been told is adequate to manage 500 iPads. Would it also cope with running RADIUS, 200-odd APs etc?

4. Will the wireless networks scale to running Apple TV? (I'm aware of the chatty nature of bonjour, but would hope that Apple tech on an Apple network would work.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't had a good experience trying to get answers from Apple themselves. They haven't got a clue about the demands of education on IT Infrastructure.

[Michael]

I'd agree with your logic that Apple AirPort's are not meant for Enterprise/Education. The kind of scale you're talking about, you would need a controller and possibly hundreds of Wireless Access Points. With some systems you can have redundant controllers.

 

So long as your wireless network provides Wireless N (the max iPads support), it would be a good idea to install Wireless AC Access Points to offer a bit of future proofing. This should easily be able to support Apple TV or AirServer.

 

The only other thing I'd suggest is some form of MDM solution to offer some element of control, but I'm yet to see something which can properly and efficiently manage iPad updates... it just doesn't exist, so each will download its own copy of iOS, putting a massive drain on your internet connection.

[mac_shinobi]

UniFi by this company - Ubiquiti Networks - Enterprise

 

Or

 

Ruckus - Welcome to Ruckus Wireless, Inc. | Ruckus Wireless, Inc.

 

Depending on how much of a budget you have, best to get a professional survey done if you can afford that and go from there with regards to what kit to go with etc

[Stuclark]

I'm afraid to say it, but this will be an utter nightmare; especially on a flat network!

 

AppleTVs, iPads, Macs - basically *anything* Apple broadcasts so much Bonjour traffic that it will actually flood your network! The sensible limit for things like AppleTV and iPads attached to the same network (VLAN) is about 50. Seriously. If you go much above this level, you will start to see wierd issues with AppleTVs or iPads "dropping off" the network and not being able to see other devices.

 

For the wireless infastructure, I would seriously recommend you go for an enterprise level solution (i.e. NOT Apple) - something like Aruba, AirTight, Meraki (not my favourite) or Ruckus. Don't try anything cheap as it simply won't have the features you need.

 

As far as making a network this size actually work; you're going to need to use VLANs merely to contain the Bonjour traffic. If you plan on each VLAN having up to 10 AppleTVs and up to 30 iPads, you should be ok. (but those are upper limit numbers in reality)

 

Oh, and don't forget that iPhones etc. also shout Bonjour all the time!

[mac_shinobi]

I'm afraid to say it, but this will be an utter nightmare; especially on a flat network!

 

AppleTVs, iPads, Macs - basically *anything* Apple broadcasts so much Bonjour traffic that it will actually flood your network! The sensible limit for things like AppleTV and iPads attached to the same network (VLAN) is about 50. Seriously. If you go much above this level, you will start to see wierd issues with AppleTVs or iPads "dropping off" the network and not being able to see other devices.

 

For the wireless infastructure, I would seriously recommend you go for an enterprise level solution (i.e. NOT Apple) - something like Aruba, AirTight, Meraki (not my favourite) or Ruckus. Don't try anything cheap as it simply won't have the features you need.

 

As far as making a network this size actually work; you're going to need to use VLANs merely to contain the Bonjour traffic. If you plan on each VLAN having up to 10 AppleTVs and up to 30 iPads, you should be ok. (but those are upper limit numbers in reality)

 

Oh, and don't forget that iPhones etc. also shout Bonjour all the time!

 

Thought UniFi you setup / configured the network via software so can setup VLAN's etc. Although think you would have to config the VLAN's on your switches and then connect the relevant controller to the relevant VLAN Port on the switch and do it that way maybe ?

 

Failing that maybe setup different ip address ranges for different kit to seperate the traffic for bonjour etc

Edited December 12, 2014 by mac_shinobi

[Stuclark]

From what I know of UniFi (which is not a lot I'll admit) it doesn't use multiple channels, hence why I didn't list them... that's all though.

[Marshall_IT]

As already stated you will NEED VLANs. The sheer amount of broadcast traffic will cripple your network. Aerohive for WiFi has a bonjour gateway built-in do you can have your Apple TVs and printers on a different VLAN to your iPads of needed.