pcstru Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 The Biomeme Hypothesis. Interesting stuff - we already know cat owners are almost completely controlled by parasitic infections ;-), are religious rituals a result of similar infections? Presentation of the hypothesis: Some microorganisms would gain an evolutionary advantage by encouraging human hosts to perform certain rituals that favor microbial transmission. We hypothesize that certain aspects of religious behavior observed in the human society could be influenced by microbial host control and that the transmission of some religious rituals could be regarded as the simultaneous transmission of both ideas (memes) and parasitic organisms.
sonofsanta Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; 24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of the bread, and drink of the cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body. Corinthians 11:23-29 See also: Toxoplasma gondii and no end of other creepy parasites in the animal kingdom. Cordyceps in ants is my favourite creepy parasite - controls the ant to climb to the highest point it can then lock its jaws into the plant so it can't fall off as a mushroom grows out of its head, so that - when said mushroom explodes in a puff of spores - the spores can spread as far as possible and infect more ants.
spadam Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 Cordyceps in ants is my favourite creepy parasite Maybe a new thread is needed - 'What's your favourite parasite and why?'. I listened to a pretty good short story a while back inspired by Cordyceps - http://pseudopod.org/2011/10/21/pseudopod-252-the-cord/
AMLinington Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I'd be more convinced by the argument that sexual deviance and 'fetishes' are influenced by microbes than 'religious' rituals. Ditto to SOME OCD behaviours (such as touching things a certain number of times etc). In the religions I'm familiar with (Christian ones) kissing of the feet of a cross, kissing of Bishops/Popes/Cardinal's rings etc and the sharing of a cup of wine are the only examples I can think of that favour microbial transmission (I can't speak for other religions) whereas the broad spectrum of sexual fetishes makes for a smorgasbord of microbial transit pathways. I can think of about 20 different 'kinks' off the top of my head that I would consider to be better microbial transmission behaviours than a once-a-week trip to Church...
pcstru Posted July 17, 2014 Author Posted July 17, 2014 Christian religion has many possible vectors, baptism (water), eating of blessed wafers things, washing feet. The whole gather lot's of people together in a church is good for any non-contact infection but pass round the collection plate so the bacteria which need a bit of a hug don't feel left out. If bacteria and viruses can modify behaviour to the extent of making ants get to a high point, freewill must be in for a bit of a squeeze.
AMLinington Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 Christian religion has many possible vectors, baptism (water), eating of blessed wafers things, washing feet. The whole gather lot's of people together in a church is good for any non-contact infection but pass round the collection plate so the bacteria which need a bit of a hug don't feel left out. If bacteria and viruses can modify behaviour to the extent of making ants get to a high point, freewill must be in for a bit of a squeeze. I'm still not sure 'religious fervour' is a convincing vector. Modifying sexual behaviour would be less difficult than affecting free will because it's down to brain chemistry, nerve endings and hormones. Realistically it could be possible for a microbe to manipulate sexual behaviours by 'rewarding' the behaviour with endorphins (which, without reading the article might be what they're suggesting for the religious behaviours). Who knows. I'm not a biologist, I just think the pretext under which they propose to 'prove' behaviours is a bit flimsy.
Seb1780 Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I can think of about 20 different 'kinks' off the top of my head that I would consider to be better than a once-a-week trip to Church... FTFY 2
sonofsanta Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I think the parasites in this instance are the priests, rabbi, bishops or basically all the nut job speakers of religion. Thinking about it seriously, if you got rid of all these then the world would be a better place. I've often said that I have no problem with belief; my problem is with religion specifically, the structure and the organisation and the politics behind it. I mean, C of E vicars and the like are generally, without fail, the loveliest and most well-meaning of people; but the Church as a whole is built around concentrating power and enforcing pre-medieval societal norms. The Catholic Church was born into the void of power left behind by the collapsing Roman Empire, after all, and the King James translation was heavily swayed by the desire to keep the peasantry peaceful (the meek shall inherit the earth etc.). The world would be a much nicer place if those who followed God had their conversations with Him* in private instead of going through layers of intermediaries that would twist words toward more earthly concerns. *her, it, etc.
AMLinington Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I've often said that I have no problem with belief; my problem is with religion specifically, the structure and the organisation and the politics behind it. I mean, C of E vicars and the like are generally, without fail, the loveliest and most well-meaning of people; but the Church as a whole is built around concentrating power and enforcing pre-medieval societal norms. The Catholic Church was born into the void of power left behind by the collapsing Roman Empire, after all, and the King James translation was heavily swayed by the desire to keep the peasantry peaceful (the meek shall inherit the earth etc.). The world would be a much nicer place if those who followed God had their conversations with Him* in private instead of going through layers of intermediaries that would twist words toward more earthly concerns. *her, it, etc. The Church of England specifically (not non-catholic Christian sects, just the C of E) was created literally so that Henry VIII could marry Anne Boleyn after he was denied a divorce from Catherine of Aragon. So the C of E specifically is built entirely on the need for an obsessive King to sire a legitimate son.
jinnantonnixx Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 The hypothesis would have to show that the carrier would have a transmission vector in all religions, not just current major religions. The vectors themselves need not be common (e.g. shared cups, as not all religion share vessels), but they need to be present. Otherwise, you'll be cherry picking if you didn't include all religions. What rituals do seventh day adventists have in common with those who followed Odin? I don't know, I picked them at random.
AMLinington Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 The hypothesis would have to show that the carrier would have a transmission vector in all religions, not just current major religions. The vectors themselves need not be common (e.g. shared cups, as not all religion share vessels), but they need to be present. Otherwise, you'll be cherry picking if you didn't include all religions. What rituals do seventh day adventists have in common with those who followed Odin? I don't know, I picked them at random. Exactly my point about the flimsy pretext. Sexual kinks on the other hand transcend racial/social and religious boundaries and would make a considerably more reliable transmission vector. IMO that article is based on male-cow-excrement.
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