Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) I've been asked what we would need if we were to move site into a new building, what IT equipment would be needed. The building isn't yet constructed so treat it as if we have free reign. So far i've put down. Server rack with sufficient power for all appliances such as servers, ups, switches and routers. Modular Layer3 core switch Firewall and content filter Rack mounted servers with storage array RAID6 UPS Power supplies Air conditioned room Ethernet cabling to latest spec Ethernet sockets in computer rooms Workstation grade PC’s to run CAD/CAM software Wifi Network – Next generation specification Interactive whiteboards Printers in computer rooms Office for IT staff for network monitoring with multidisplay computers. Backup NAS drive in separate room Hi-speed internet (fibre) Fibre backbone for LAN Gigabit switches for computer rooms with wall mounted cabinets Is there anything I'm missing? Edited February 25, 2013 by Gaz
Steve21 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Well depends how much free reign, but: "Other-side-of-school" backup room etc Don't know if it's assumed or not, but fibre backbone etc? etc Steve 1
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Not too sure what you mean by "Other-side-of-school" backup room etc Fibre backbone? Is that LAN or WAN? I actually forgot about the internet
Steve21 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Not too sure what you mean by "Other-side-of-school" backup room etc Fibre backbone? Is that LAN or WAN? I actually forgot about the internet As in, secondary backup area on site, so even if server room burns etc you have your backups. Fibre as in the main links across the site, instead of using CAT5 etc, fibre link out to individual cabs around the school then CAT5 etc from there. Steve 1
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Arh yes good point. Not too sure how its going to be wired, i.e. if all the wiring is going to go back to the server room thus no need for cabs in the rooms We'll probably have 3 computer rooms and about 7 classrooms (with ethernet but only for IWB) Is it better practice to have cabs in the rooms or have all the cabling go back to server? sorry if thats a silly question but I've never been asked to design a network of this level.
Steve21 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Not sure you can really do that (if it's a large site) thought cat5 max length was 100m~ But from my understanding it's generally better to go: main server room->fibre->cabs cabs->cat5/6->devices As it's faster over fibre etc But if as you said you're only having a few classrooms it may well not be worth the hassle/price, if it's not likely to get overloaded anyway. Guess its future proofing though. But sure others could confirm/deny that! Steve 1
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Yeah its probably better, because I don't know how big the rooms will be or how far from the server room they will be fibre uplinks is probably the better choice. The move wont happen for another 2 years but the planning needs to happen now.
unixman_again Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Lots of power points in the IT office, and grouped according to your specification. A couple of schools ago, my team (three of us) were getting a new office and server room. The architect said there would be 5 double power points in the office, 1 for each staff, 1 for a printer and 1 spare. I said we needed at least 4 doubles at each work bench and another 5 doubles scattered around the room. The architect thought this to be excessive, until I took him to the old office and showed him all of the 4 ways on the desks. I said we were going to get away from these 4 ways. Also in the IT office you need : a combined water cooler/hot water source fridge and ideally an espresso machine (Faema or similar!) 1
Roberto Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Before you try and decide what infrastructure you need, you need to be sure you've gathered all the user requirements and assumptions. You mention classroom requirements... that's good but where might they expand to in the future? Is wireless assumed? If you need wiring and server infrastructure to support that. What about provision for computers in offices, staffrooms, etc? As FN-GM says, what about VoIP phones (if someone says you're not using VoIP phones then either you're re-using your current system, which is fair enough, or in this day and age I'd question that decision quite strongly). Support for BMS, security systems? 2
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Wifi is on the list^^ IP phone system, I'm not too sure about but its always nice to play with new tech isn't it? If the switch powering the IP phones dies do we lose the phones? Office computers will be laptops but that is assumed, they will run off the wifi network with ethernet in the room as backup in case/when the wifi plays up. Forgive my ignorance but whats BMS?
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward. I've been asked what we would need if we were to move site into a new building, what IT equipment would be needed. The building isn't yet constructed so treat it as if we have free reign. So far i've put down. >>Server rack with sufficient power for all appliances such as servers, ups, switches and routers. 1000 Deep >>Modular Layer3 core switch Make sure it's got some redundancy for failures. >>Firewall and content filter Plenty of options from free to ££££ >>Rack mounted servers with storage array RAID6 Don't go for 1U, stick with 2U. >>UPS Power supplies Make sure the load is distruibuted correctly and that they are network connected. >>Air conditioned room Specify N+1 for the capacity required. >>Ethernet cabling to latest spec Don't bother with CAT7 >>Ethernet sockets in computer rooms yep make sure there is enough physical room for the students, use cantaliver benches to remove legs from the front edge. >>Workstation grade PC’s to run CAD/CAM software Workstations are very expensive, what CAD are you using >>Wifi Network – Next generation specification Meru,Rukus,Meraki... get vendors in to show you the advantages. >>Interactive whiteboards Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward. >>Printers in computer rooms Reduce the number, make it more difficult to print, reduce print. >>Office for IT staff for network monitoring with multidisplay computers. Cry.... >>Backup NAS drive in separate room Seperate building or tapes off site. >>Hi-speed internet (fibre) Don't go for a consumer service as the upload is not good. >>Fibre backbone for LAN Diverse routed if you can. >>Gigabit switches for computer rooms with wall mounted cabinets Avoid this if you can, central distro rooms preferable. >>is there anything missing??? Probably lots. Rob 1
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Office computers should be computers not laptops. Or should have DOCK's with correct Monitor mountings, Keybaord, Mouse Etc.. BMS ( Building Management Systems ) Rob 1
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Cashless Catering Follow Me Print CCTV Systems Intergration IPTV Phone / Comms Lines ( and Ducting ) Apple Servers BYOD provision Door Access Visitors Kiosk Systems Digital Signage Laptop Storage Remote Access Rob 1
FN-GM Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 If the switch powering the IP phones dies do we lose the phones? Yep but if you have a decent setup you will have redundancy and hot swaps etc. It will be easier to fix than an old style phone system! 1
Roberto Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Wifi is on the list^^ IP phone system, I'm not too sure about but its always nice to play with new tech isn't it? If the switch powering the IP phones dies do we lose the phones? Office computers will be laptops but that is assumed, they will run off the wifi network with ethernet in the room as backup in case/when the wifi plays up. Forgive my ignorance but whats BMS? BMS = Building Management System. Automated/clever systems for managing site heating, power, etc. If they're using that, they'll want it networked. Even if they don't know it yet. 1
psydii Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) A quick brain dump, excluding things already mentioned when I started writing this. I'm not really considering how much it would cost. Simply what you ought to have to be able to provide a 99.9% SLA on your network (power outages excepted), and minimising future expansion costs. Server Room/Main Comms Room At least 4x 16Amp circuits to you main comms/server room. Separate AirCon Circuits. At least 2 Aircon Units (configured to auto start after a powerfailure) large enough to cool the room when only one is running. Specifiy required temperature at device air intake vents (e.g. 19C). Nothing else on the circuits. Depending on the topology of the new network, between two and four 42U racks , with sufficient space to walk around them. Lights out Management for your PDU's Servers and Core Switches. Virtualised Servers, with shared storage, no host running at more than 2/3 capacity. Around the site: Properly designed cable routes. for both copper and fibre. At least 8 Core 10GbE rated Fibre to the core. Documentation. 10GBe switch ports from secondary Cabs to Core. Link secondary comms rooms in pairs by alternative routes of fibre, to provide a backup path to your main comms room in the event of a fibre break or switch failure. At least 4 Core 10Gbe Rated. 2x LACP 1Gbe switch ports for the alternative routes. Depending on the network topology (i.e. switch density per location) you may also need aircon in each comms room. UPS for each comms room, especially if you are going wireless or voip in a big way. Four data points in each classroom at high level. (two WAPs, projector, ATV or similar) Four to Six data points at the teacher desk position. This might seem overkill, but it allows you to repurpose two into uplinks for a switch if you ever want to convert the room to ICT suite. Lots of data points in the front office. Lots of Data points for interfacing with CCTV and Access Control. Floor mounted points for Cashless Catering. Data Points for Cashless Catering recharge stations. Minimum 1.5 Power sockets per Data Point. Minimum 3 Data Points per user (office space) Minimum 36 Data Points for a 30 Seat ICT Suite. (plus the allocation for a standard classroom) Assuming VOIP and Wifi, and potentially CCTV: Power over Ethernet. 802.11at. Ideally be able to provide 30W per port. Plan for 3 POE ports per classroom + 1 port per department, + 1 port per administrative member of staff + Number of CCTV Cameras +10%. Midspan is usually more cost effective than actual PoE switches. Make sure they fully support 1GbE devices. Finally be warey of 'next generation wifi'. I got badly burned by this. If the build is likely to be 18-2yrs+ after the 'next generation' is ratified then it is probably a safe bet. Avoid deploying first generation silicon at all costs, unles you can live with stuff not working right. I've got a wonderful Meru network now, but my initial 2009 (vendor name withheld) 11n experience was horrific. Things you can quickly scale back when they laugh at the costs of the above: the redudant fibre links. InterSwitch Fibre links - you don't NEED fibre between switches on the same floor/phase/building. Reduce the PoE Provision. Reduce the clasroom provision. Reduce the UPS provision to core only, with uptime reduced to be sufficient to cover a clean shutdown in the event of power loss. Reduce the AC cover in the rooms to one. Remove Lights Out management. Single cicuit for the coms room. Be less fussy about what else is on the power circuit that feed the comms rooms and suites. Reduce from 10Gbe ports to 2x GbE LACP trunks for you links from core to secondary comms cabs. 2 VM hosts rather than 3 Edited February 25, 2013 by psydii 1
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward. I've been asked what we would need if we were to move site into a new building, what IT equipment would be needed. The building isn't yet constructed so treat it as if we have free reign. So far i've put down. >>Server rack with sufficient power for all appliances such as servers, ups, switches and routers. 1000 Deep Agreed >>Modular Layer3 core switch Make sure it's got some redundancy for failures. Agreed >>Firewall and content filter Plenty of options from free to ££££ Agreed >>Rack mounted servers with storage array RAID6 Don't go for 1U, stick with 2U. Agreed Is 4U ok too? we'll probably only require 1 >>UPS Power supplies Make sure the load is distruibuted correctly and that they are network connected. Agreed, It will be split evenly over the network equipment >>Air conditioned room Specify N+1 for the capacity required. Agreed >>Ethernet cabling to latest spec Don't bother with CAT7 Didn't even know there was a CAT7 its just that this isn't going to happen for another 2 years so its whatever the best/cost effective >>Ethernet sockets in computer rooms yep make sure there is enough physical room for the students, use cantaliver benches to remove legs from the front edge. Agreed >>Workstation grade PC’s to run CAD/CAM software Workstations are very expensive, what CAD are you using Soildworks, Camworks, Inventer and Catia >>Wifi Network – Next generation specification Meru,Rukus,Meraki... get vendors in to show you the advantages. Agreed >>Interactive whiteboards Interactive whiteboards are way out of date, don't buy any unless an absolute idea of how they are going to aid T&L is put forward. Really? We were using whiteboard and marker pens but were kinda forced to use Promethean boards by the powers that be we were told we needed to engage the students more, I'm just the techie who am I to disagree? >>Printers in computer rooms Reduce the number, make it more difficult to print, reduce print. There will only be 3 printers for the computer rooms plus a photocopier for central printing >>Office for IT staff for network monitoring with multidisplay computers. Cry.... A man can dream damn it lol... >>Backup NAS drive in separate room Seperate building or tapes off site. Agreed >>Hi-speed internet (fibre) Don't go for a consumer service as the upload is not good. Agreed >>Fibre backbone for LAN Diverse routed if you can. Would that require 2 cables to the switch? >>Gigabit switches for computer rooms with wall mounted cabinets Avoid this if you can, central distro rooms preferable. Why? >>is there anything missing??? Probably lots. Yep its a balance of overkill and getting the stuff to just get the job done, this is a building that hasn't even been built yet so it can be planned accordingly Rob Thanks.
psydii Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Office computers should be computers not laptops. Or should have DOCK's with correct Monitor mountings, Keybaord, Mouse Etc.. Definately. We're now 70% wireless laptop for admin staff computers and support them with docks, screens etc at their primary desk. Works great. The wired infrastructre for most users supports the WAPs, printers and the legacy phones. I'd still flood wire the place though given a chance, just in case BYOD and 11ac turn out to be a disaster. 1
Gaz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Definately. We're now 70% wireless laptop for admin staff computers and support them with docks, screens etc at their primary desk. Works great. The wired infrastructre for most users supports the WAPs, printers and the legacy phones. I'd still flood wire the place though given a chance, just in case BYOD and 11ac turn out to be a disaster. I'll change it to desktops then. I am making a provision for BYOD. I just though laptops would be a better solution as most of them use their personal ones now anyway but they are off the domain. 1
psydii Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) TO expand on the three nines.... ignoring Office 365/Google Apps for the moment (which you shouldn't when planning a new build)... Using a product like VEEAM Enterprise, and keeping your day to day VM Hosts with 30% overhead, allows you to model changes to replicas of production servers in a sandboxed environment without impacting production, reducing the chances of 'maintenence errors' and increasing the speed at which you can reliably implement change. You should also implement Exchange DAG and SQL and Fileserver Clusters and ensure that any turnkey products are Virtualised to minimise impact of hardware failures, and bring server patching in to your daily tasks rather than an out of hours function. Also switch management tools: Great for configuration and patch management. A massive time saver, and great for detecting problems that you'd otherwise miss. If you go cheap with your switches (say the HPv 1910 series) rather than high spec'd cisco or procurve beasts you can use a fraction of the money saved to get HP IMC. The v1910 wouldn't do for the core of this network...... Edited February 25, 2013 by psydii
psydii Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 .... However (and I'm just riffing now)..... If you were to go big on Office 365/Google Apps and you had a RBC Broadband connection you might be able to ditch all the local servers, keep the wired and wireless infrastructure, but use the v1910 across the whole site (it supports VLANs, Static Routing, ACLs and QoS... what more do you really need?). With IMC to manage it you'd be able to deliver most of the services in my initial post in this thread at a fraction of the cost. You ought to double up on your WAN link though. Likely your management's approach will be dictated by the Capital/Revenue split for the project.
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 BMS = Building Management System. Automated/clever systems for managing site heating, power, etc. If they're using that, they'll want it networked. Even if they don't know it yet. Rofl, I nearly spat my beer out... Automated, Clever... Having experienced a few BMS i can't see "automated and clever" being applicable as an AND Rob
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 There are many better ways to engage children than using a Int-Act-whiteboard, 90% get used as a projection screen, 9% as a pointing tool, 1% for something interesting. Rob
twin--turbo Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I'll change it to desktops then. I am making a provision for BYOD. I just though laptops would be a better solution as most of them use their personal ones now anyway but they are off the domain. You have to seriously consider H&S of your staff, allowing them to use an unsuitable device all day could lead to injury and despite their wish to use their laptop there is still a responsibility as the employer to ensure the H&S of that staff member. If you provide the correct facility and they choose not to use it then that is a different matter. Rob
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