Managed 802.11n - anyone using this yet?

[eean]

Anyone actually installed a managed 802.11n system?

We've got wireless network consisting of consumer-grade Belkin n APs and would like proper managed wireless solution.

The Network manager wants to install .11g -it seems a bit silly to be installing something we will grow out of in a few years and, in places, could be slower than our exisiting system. We have macbooks, so can start taking advantage of the technology straight away.

 

Does anyone have experience of n, and/or any idea about the costs (NM claims it's 2-3x more expensive, but I'd like some figures).

 

If any advertisers/others would like to PM me some indicative figures for comparision for, say, a 8AP system, it would be appreciated.

 

Cheers,

[Haptic]

Just got our Ruckus 802.11n kit consisting of the following:

 

Ruckus Zone director 1000, supporting up to 6 access points.

2 x Zoneflex 7942 802.11n, 12 element smart antenna access points.

 

Was a doddle to setup, and is highly recommended.

 

The hardware itself came in at under £2000, with the options of support taking this over depending on how much you can afford.

 

Give CP a shout to go though the options, its good kit and highly recommended in the forums.

 

Many thanks for the recomendation fella,

 

@ eean be sure to give me a pm if you would like more info or pricing, we have a stack of members we have supplied who I'm sure will give you feedback on Ruckus performance

[featured_spectre]

I am one of the more happier customers as Simon personally used his kit to do our site survey (although we had someone else from his company!). Thankfully we ordered via CP and got the best deal around

[stevenlong1985]

Yep Im running Ruckus too all wireless N no problems mate!

[dirtydog]

our whole wireless network is Ruckus N from NetCtrl.

[eean]

Thanks guys - I'm starting to love Ruckus, especially the price. By the looks of things they have a buy-one-get-one-free offer on access points (if you buy 10). Hopefully that will be available out here in Malaysia.

 

A few questions.

How does n cope when there are g clients? Does it get crippled? Will it switch up to full speed when there are no g on that AP?

 

Load-balancing. I assume it does this! If I've got a class load of laptops within range of, say, 3 APs, will it put some of the clients onto an AP that's further away (but on a different channel)?

 

I've read up on their website. They mention this directional antenna thing but don't seem to make too many boasts about how well it can handle multiple clients!

[stevenlong1985]

Thanks guys - I'm starting to love Ruckus, especially the price. By the looks of things they have a buy-one-get-one-free offer on access points (if you buy 10). Hopefully that will be available out here in Malaysia.

 

A few questions.

How does n cope when there are g clients? Does it get crippled? Will it switch up to full speed when there are no g on that AP?

 

Load-balancing. I assume it does this! If I've got a class load of laptops within range of, say, 3 APs, will it put some of the clients onto an AP that's further away (but on a different channel)?

 

I've read up on their website. They mention this directional antenna thing but don't seem to make too many boasts about how well it can handle multiple clients!

 

 

It all just works mate! I have a few Wireless G client too, they all work on the same AP or network, no problems, my network never gotten crippled, the beamflex technology is amazing Cisco wants it now, netgear have tried to copy it but is getting sued over it at the moment

[stevenlong1985]

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/34833-ruckus-wireless-again.html

 

have a look my post about ruckus wireless

[eean]

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/34833-ruckus-wireless-again.html

 

have a look my post about ruckus wireless

 

What sort of 'real life' throughput are you getting? (IIRC there's a tester within that utility).

 

And what's the deal with "the software". Do we need that? Is that to be purchased in addtion to the AP controller?

I saw somewhere selling it for us$5000! And read somewhere that it came with the support contract. Does that then include software updates?

[featured_spectre]

I get a fantastic throughput although I am not on Wireless N here. The software and hardware is needed to make it run, but believe me, its worth the cost!

[stevenlong1985]

Isnt that just the Software what is install on the Zone Director? which is pre-install already

[Jose]

can I ask some silly questions about this please as I am slightly confused.

 

Do these access points actually send and recieve data more quickly than other access points, I saw on another thread that a user had 57 clients on one access point without any hassles but how much bandwidth would each client be given ?.

 

If I wanted to have 120 laptops being used in a sports hall and have each client givin a minimium of 2MB of bandwidth without channel interference would this be possible if my laptop clients only supported 11g. I have it worked out that I would need 13-14 access points to give 2 MB each,

54MB really only gives around 18MB so atleat 13 access points are needed, now if you use 11a or 11n 5ghz then its easy but how would this ruckus system match the performance of a 11a 5ghz setup in a situation like this.

 

I know it might seem unfair to compare a 11a setup with a 11g setup but I want to try to understand how a managed system can guarantee bandwidth with lots of clients without using 5ghz networks.

[Tallwood_6]

We have a couple of the Dual Channel N ZoneFlex 7962 two of these will do 120 laptops.

[Haptic]

We have a couple of the Dual Channel N ZoneFlex 7962 two of these will do 120 laptops.

 

glad your seeing the benefit fella,

[Tallwood_6]

The difference we see even with the more basic Ruckus ZoneFlex 2942 over the likes of the Procurve 420 and Procurve 530 units we currently have is substantial. If you can afford an 802.11n then go for it you will get even better coverage with units like the Ruckus ZoneFlex 7962 and probably save more money in the long run.

[Jose]

We have a couple of the Dual Channel N ZoneFlex 7962 two of these will do 120 laptops.

 

The N speed is 300.00, so thats really only about 75-80MB in real world speeds, so for each client to be given 2MB each you would need three wireless N access points.

Just out of interested in line with my original question how would ruckus provide 120 11g clients in the same sports hall with 2MB bandwidth without channel interference.

 

I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.

 

I understand why people are happy with the system it keeps clients connected without any dropouts as it obviously does due to all the positive feedback on here but can it provide bandwidth of atleast 2MB to 11g clients in areas of a school that has over 35 laptops (11g) in a small space.

54MB is only about 18MB so really only 9 11g clients per access point/channel

 

The reason I am asking these questions is to try to have a measurable quality standard to see if this solution can meet this standard, I have noticed from other threads on here that there does not seem to be a accepted defination of what a quality wireless network is, some people on here would probably just be happy if all their clients can log on and save work, while others might want their clients to all be able to use streaming media at once or all be able to use youtube at once.

I am after information on how ruckus would provide atleat 2MB bandwidth in this situation.

Some people might think that 2MB per client is not needed but if you don't have a set quality standard of acceptable service then its difficult to judge wether a system is worth buying.

 

I'm sure the lads that resell ruckus will do their best to answer this question on this thread without dodging the hard questions.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Jose
spelling

[Haptic]

The N speed is 300.00, so thats really only about 75-80MB in real world speeds, so for each client to be given 2MB each you would need three wireless N access points.

Just out of interested in line with my original question how would ruckus provide 120 11g clients in the same sports hall with 2MB bandwidth without channel interference.

 

I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.

 

I understand why people are happy with the system it keeps clients connected without any dropouts as it obviously does due to all the positive feedback on here but can it provide bandwidth of atleast 2MB to 11g clients in areas of a school that has over 35 laptops (11g) in a small space.

54MB is only about 18MB so really only 9 11g clients per access point/channel

 

The reason I am asking these questions is to try to have a measurable quality standard to see if this solution can meet this standard, I have noticed from other threads on here that there does not seem to be a accepted defination of what a quality wireless network is, some people on here would probably just be happy if all their clients can log on and save work, while others might want their clients to all be able to use streaming media at once or all be able to use youtube at once.

I am after information on how ruckus would provide atleat 2MB bandwidth in this situation.

Some people might think that 2MB per client is not needed but if you don't have a set quality standard of acceptable service then its difficult to judge wether a system is worth buying.

 

I'm sure the lads that resell ruckus will do their best to answer this question on this thread without dodging the hard questions.

 

Tell you what how about we send you an eval unit and you arnswer that question for us,

[featured_spectre]

Whilst I do not have the N components, I have the ABG components, and believe me the coverage, gain, etc is fine. We had 90 clients connect on 1 AP (we were testing it and it can apparently have 128 clients per AP!!!) and it did the 90 without a problem.

 

When we tested a Xirrus, Meru and Cisco system, they started going down at about 30+ clients per AP.

[eean]

I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.

 

Perhaps it would be good idea if a few Ruckus users could post some throughput speeds - there is a way of finding that out in the manager software.

[Jose]

Perhaps it would be good idea if a few Ruckus users could post some throughput speeds - there is a way of finding that out in the manager software.

 

 

that would be good thanks, I'm after facts and figures about bandwidth per client, I fully understand that ruckus is good at providing consistant connections without dropouts.

 

My understanding of wireless is that the bandwidth is shared between clients so to have 2MB per client on a 54mb (real speed 18mb) network you need 1 access point per 9 clients.

I suppose my question is can does the Ruckus AP that has 57 clients on it give atleat 2MB per client, I can't see how it can without changing the laws of physics.

[Jose]

Tell you what how about we send you an eval unit and you arnswer that question for us,

 

We are not in position to buy, but I am impressed by peoples opinions on Ruckus and it look a impressive system to provide "site wide" wireless access but what I'm trying to find out is how it handles large amounts of clients while providing 2MB per client bandwidth.

I KNOW its a quality product at doing what it does but would it do what I want it to do, what is giving atleast 2MB per client.

 

Please dazzle with science and explain how one AP with 57 clients provides 2MB to each laptop

[Haptic]

We are not in position to buy, but I am impressed by peoples opinions on Ruckus and it look a impressive system to provide "site wide" wireless access but what I'm trying to find out is how it handles large amounts of clients while providing 2MB per client bandwidth.

I KNOW its a quality product at doing what it does but would it do what I want it to do, what is giving atleast 2MB per client.

 

Please dazzle with science and explain how one AP with 57 clients provides 2MB to each laptop

 

Hi Jose,

 

You will never recieve 2MB per client from any wireless system in the market, by its very nature its shared bandwith for example, In an ideal situation where all clients are recieving maximum signal strenght (hence full throughput) the total ability of the AP will mearly be shared between the total number of clients,

The benefit of say Ruckus Wireless N would be that you have upto 300 mbps of throughput to play with as apposed to the G standard of 25mbps,

 

I hope this helps a little

 

Simon:cool:

[Tallwood_6]

Its all about better managing the amount of bandwith available, take a look at your network utilization on a normal desktop over the course of the day as i sit here typing this its at 0% unless all your clients are copying across the network and streaming video constantly its not going to be a problem. I mean our internet connection is 10mbps and even with 1200 kids and 500 desktops this rairely gets saturated.

If i get the opertunity over the summer i will set a number of laptops and install speedflex and get you some figures but i think the only way to satisfy your interest is to get some eval kit and test for yourself.

[Jose]

thanks for the honest reply.

 

it seems to me the only way to get large amounts of clients working with atleast 2MB of bandwidth is to use the 5GHZ APs.

 

does extricom load balance clients better than ruckus?

[White_Fi]

Hi Guys, thought you mike like some expert advice on this matter:

 

In the sports hall there is so much multipath that you really only have 3 effective RF channels, 1, 6, 13 on the 2.4ghz

 

With 11g you get a maximum throughput of 20mbps per channel, so you would have 60mbps to play with

 

If you had 120 users (max would be 300 in this hall with 3 APs)

 

Then you get 60/120 which is about 0.5mbps per student concurrent

 

Adding more access points wont help either in both a single cell or multi cell environment due to the close proximity of the APs in the hall.

 

If you moved to 11n then you would effectively have 60mbps per channel and that would give you 180mbps per 120 student, so still only 1.5mbps each

 

The answer is 5ghz, you can have up to 19 aps on different channels not 3 in 2,4ghz

 

Use bandsteering to manipulate the clients in the 5ghz spectrum, then you can provide about 1gbps in the sports hall, which is plenty

 

 

Kind Regards

Stuart White

Edited July 17, 2009 by White_Fi