Hi Vikpaw, thanks for the welcome and your advise, i do have a current CRB certificate from the classroom assistant course i was on, it runs out this december (think they last for 3yrs then need renewing), i have had a break from the school i was volunteering in so not sure if it's still valid, i assumed CRB would be needed even if i had no contact with the children as i'd have access to all their relevant personal information, not sure though, i suppose it's worth having a word with the schools admin manager to see if they'd allow me to do some voluntary work within the office allowing me to train up on the data system they have be it SIMS or CMIS, your idea of doing out of hours is good unfortunately i have a 7yr old so thats a no no, but thanks anyway, it's like you said, it's a matter of just getting your foot in the door somewhere, even if it is only voluntary.