secret monitoring with UltraVNC / italc

[Anti]

Small private school in mainland Europe.

Teacher checking email on networked computer.

Pupil comes up to him and says he just saw the teacher's screen on the tech's computer.

Teacher did not get a pop-up or warning that the tech was connecting to that computer.

Teachers (or pupils) have not been told about any monitoring policy, nor signed an AUP.

 

Further investigation reveals UltraVNC is installed on all the school's computers.

(although, supposedly UltraVNC does not have a stealth mode without hacking it).

 

1)

I suspect iTalc or some other software is being used (piggybacking on UltraVNC).

Does anyone know of monitoring software that has a stealth mode?

If it is likely to be iTalc, how can I tell if iTalc clients are installed on the machines?

 

2)

Fair enough if the tech is doing random monitoring. We like him and he's got a job to do. What we are really worried about is if our creepy, power-hungry headmaster is sitting in his office watching what we do on our whiteboards all day without telling us. Is it possible that the technician has iTalc installed on his own PC, and that the headmaster also has his own version in his office?

 

3)

Is this kind of secret monitoring illegal in Europe? Especially when you're doing it to children?

If not, is it at least common practice to be open about it, and to get an AUP signed?

Shouldn't parents also be advised of it?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[6Foot2]

We use iTalc and I can confirm [for the version that we have: No hacks or modifications] when we connect to a workstation [to view or control] the user is not informed by the software.

 

HTH.

[Anti]

Thanks for that confirmation.

 

How can i tell if iTalc is actually installed?

We see UltraVNC listed in the program files and in the start menu.

But I can't see anything related to iTalc. Does it run as a service?

 

Cheers

[6Foot2]

You can tell if iTalc is installed at a particular station because [here at least] the green iTalc icon:

 

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ABLfyr5NTQ8tmM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Italc_logo.png/120px-Italc_logo.png

 

appears in the system notification area for students and staff.

 

Yes there is an iTalc service which is required if iTalc is to work.

[steve]

UltraVNC can easily be used to monitor without the user knowing.

 

All you need to do is remove the system tray icon (done via the registry) - we have done this in the past to monitor student PCs without them being able to stop it.

 

Not sure about this but does ultravnc record connections in the windows event log?

[glennda]

RealVNC will record in the Event log the time of connection and also the source IP - not sure if this is the same for UltraVNC tho

[Dos_Box]

3)

Is this kind of secret monitoring illegal in Europe? Especially when you're doing it to children?

If not, is it at least common practice to be open about it, and to get an AUP signed?

Shouldn't parents also be advised of it?

 

It depends on what you class as 'secret monitoring'? Usually AUPs will state that computers will be 'monitored', and I have often taken this to include remote viewing. It also raises the question 'What are you afraid of?'. Ususally I never watch a teachers machine (ever), or indeed any pupils comouters during lesson times. During break times it is common practice to keep an eye on what the little darlings are doing, as some of them are guarentted to be up to no good.

Of course seeing a teachers machine open in a remote viewer could also be a completely innocent thing if the technician is testing a new remote feature or config.

[glennda]

The Technician could have also been fixing a problem for the teacher! This is the kind of place you have to give trust to technician's, along with full access to data in sims etc. If there is no trust for the technicians who 99.9% of the time do things legitimately half the problems with computers never get fixed. As most of the time you spend 10 mins walking across the site to literally press ok and reboot or something like that! Total waste of time when you can do it in a a couple of mins at your desk.

[Anti]

Firstly, let me say that we don't have a problem with the technician. We would be perfectly happy with him doing some monitoring as part of his remit, as long as everyone was made aware of it, informed to what extent it was being done, what the monitoring was actually aiming to achieve, and what sanctions could be imposed for misuse. At the moment there is no written policy and no AUP. This situation obviously needs to be changed, but other than that we have no problem with the tech doing his job.

 

However, we are sickened by the thought of the headmaster sitting in his office watching what teachers are projecting onto their whiteboards, obtaining automatic screen captures throughout the day and taking manual shots of emails, without anyone ever suspecting. I can guarantee that if there is even a slight suspicion that he's doing this, all teachers will immediately stop using the school computers.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Anti

[enjay]

I have no issue with technicians and teaching staff having remote monitoring and control software, and for classroom management a stealth mode is essential. We have two products here, NetSupport School (RM Tutor) which is used in the IT Suites as a teaching tool, and TightVNC which is not quite silent as it turns the wallpaper off, and this is installed on all computers and used by IT Support.

 

I think the issue comes down to why it is in place, and trust/responsibility of the person/people using it. IT Support using it to offer quicker assistance is fine, teachers using it to keep a class on topic is fine, headteachers using it to "check up" on teachers, perhaps less so, although not completely outside their remit, mind you. IT Support could spend the day snooping on staff, but are trusted not to, in the same way as we are trusted not to read files or emails in people's MyDocs folders.

 

I think you potentially have an issue in that this is, apparently, being done without the staff being aware of it, either via an announcement from The School or an AUP. I don't think the school is actually breaking any laws by having covert monitoring in place (they can do what they want on their network), however they would have a job pursuing any disciplinary action based on what they see with it.

[zag]

This kind of monitoring is standard in most schools.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

We run Italc here and have the possibility to look at anyone's screen but I don't use it unless there is cause to, especially for staff.

[featured_spectre]

What is your role at the school? It would be better to help you knowing the role you play. EG if you are a teacher, are you worried that your practices will be called into question? Are you the Network Administrator worried that the technician is conducting illegal surveillance?

 

I personally monitor the staff and children, I have it open on a laptop on my desk and the staff know. I RARELY look at what they are doing unless something catches my eye.

[Anti]

> if you are a teacher, are you worried that your practices will be called into question?

 

Yes. But it has little to do with defending our teaching practice. There are ongoing issues of management distrust and control, and this would be another indication that the person is not doing a good job of running the school.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Anti

[enjay]

There are ongoing issues of management distrust, incompetence, maliciousness, control, etc. and this would be another indication that the person is not doing a good job of running the school.

 

Sounds like the distrust goes both ways here.

 

Is it inherently wrong for the HT to use technology to monitor what their staff are doing during lesson times? Also let's not totally lose sight of the fact that the only person you KNOW to be using this technology is not the HT at all but IT Support.

[jsnetman]

We use abtutor here and it also does not display any warnings when viewing a romote machine, in fact I have not seen any software that does this apart from the likes of logmein and so on, which are not really lan products. I have in thumbnail view 350 PC's on our lan and yes I use it to actively monitor pupils for use of games and so on. I will only monitor a teacher or support staff at the request of a senior manager. From time to time I open a teachers machine accidentally when I'm roaming around the thumbnails or when they request assistance. I have to agree with some of the posts here that if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing you should not mind this type of monitoring/support.

[featured_spectre]

> if you are a teacher, are you worried that your practices will be called into question?

 

Yes, I'm investigating on behalf of the teachers because I'm the most technically adequate. But it has little to do with defending our teaching practice. There are ongoing issues of management distrust, incompetence, maliciousness, control, etc. and this would be another indication that the person is not doing a good job of running the school. The immediate issue is staff thinking that they can safely check and send their personal emails on yahoo during their own time, whilst not realising that their privacy is being invaded by someone who is 'monitoring' in secrecy for their own perverted nefarious interests.

 

Have you thought about turning your wireless of and using a USB dongle to connect to the internet and conduct your personal business (sending emails etc)? He would not be able to see what you are doing then?

[Pete10141748]

2 main things I'd say about this:

 

1) Technician's don't *need* to monitor you in real-time, we can see from logging who does what and when on machines: however it can be useful for catching pupils who are not on-task or breaking the AUP so the "hidden" remote viewing software is legit and, tbh, I would expect any school with a techie to have it in place both for monitoring where required and ease of maintenance purposes.

 

2) If you worked in a business I can almost guarantee that you'd be on CCTV for the entire day, watching every thing you do all the time, and quite possbily have your PC monitored in far greater terms than someone occasionally spending a few minutes on a VLC screen

 

Schools are the odd ones out for *not* having greater degrees of employee monitoring in place as standard (and quite honestly, in this day and age I am still amazed that classrooms are not subject to CCTV by law).

 

Have you thought about turning your wireless of and using a USB dongle to connect to the internet and conduct your personal business (sending emails etc)? He would not be able to see what you are doing then?

 

Alternatively, have you though about conducting personal business on your own time and not while at work?

 

 

Aside from all that, I'm sure that the Head has better things to do than randomly remote into someone's machine and then sit there watching them, surely?

[enjay]

I will only monitor a teacher or support staff at the request of a senior manager. From time to time I open a teachers machine accidentally when I'm roaming around the thumbnails or when they request assistance.

 

If there are teachers in the room when I'm using monitoring, I don't look at what they have on screen (but if they are with a class, they shouldn't be doing anything personal or confidential anyway). I will connect to any office PC for support purposes, but I always tell them that I will be doing it first (unless I know they have gone home, or whatever); with those people more likely to have confidential things on screen (Head, Head's PA, finance, etc) I specifically ask if they have closed/minimised anything sensitive. I will sometimes connect to Staff Room ones without warning, but the lay-out of the room means that nothing on screen is private anyway so I have no qualms with that.

[zag]

Just to repeat what everyone else is saying, this is normal in schools and you probably don't have to worry about it.

 

If the head or someone else really was snooping on people(which I highly doubt as its not very common unless a complaint is made) then they are quite within their rights to do so if you are using school equipment.

[timzim]

However, we are sickened by the thought of our horrible, incompetent headmaster sitting in his office watching what teachers are projecting onto their whiteboards, obtaining automatic screen captures throughout the day and taking manual shots of emails, without anyone ever suspecting.

 

Let's hope he's not watching you posting to this thread then...

[6Foot2]

I feel that I have to contribute here and I would say that we are all professionals [Network Manager/Network Technicians and other designations that we may all have]

 

I am sure that we all lots of work to keep us busy each day and every day. I have enough to keep me busy from now until Christmas [2030!]

 

I think that tools like iTalc are useful for saving shoe leather [especially on a large site like ours] Today I used iTalc to complete a deployment of an application which I could not any other way. However it is useful when supporting Students and Staff with problems and responding more rapidly than attending in person.

 

We all have much more to do to occupy our time than waste it on peering into the everyday activity of [potentially] each and every user on our networks.

 

Without our ongoing efforts to support and develop the networks we are responsible for they would not continue to work as they do from day-to-day.