New Mac Suite

[Robbocop]

Well when you boot a Mac into Windows (dual boot) basically it IS a Windows PC, so you can deploy them exactly as you would any other Windows box. You don't normally see any issues at all with that. This can make a lab of Macs easier to justify, as you can use it for "normal" ICT or whenever you need to use Windows only applications. It's worth thinking about whether you need to do that or not. You don't get Windows with a Mac (of course) so you'll need to buy those licences on top. We did get one school who discovered after a year that the Macs were never being used under Mac OS at all (in other words, they'd been a waste of money!), which happens if you don't arrange a bit of training so that your staff feel comfortable using them as Macs - they just naturally stick with Windows because it's more familiar. We organised an INSET day for them on the iLife suite and now the opposite is true - Mac OS pretty much all the time! One school we set up in Sandwell uses Parallels so that they can run Mac and Windows at the same time. At Primary level that works really well, as you'll never be pushing the power of the machine.

[mbrunt]

We have two suites of apple macs, and really regret it! You can buy two pcs for the same cost.

 

Seeing as your in a primary school I dont think your users will benefit from having macs at all. Plus to install windows onto them you will have to buy additional licenses.

[HodgeHi]

We have two suites of apple macs, and really regret it! You can buy two pcs for the same cost.

 

Seeing as your in a primary school I dont think your users will benefit from having macs at all. Plus to install windows onto them you will have to buy additional licenses.

 

I disagree.

 

We are a primary school. We give the pupils the choice of which OS to use. At the moment, we have Year's 5 and 6 all preferring to use OS X instead of their XP counterpart. Also we have someone who visits every Thursday to teach pupils the fundamentals of Music through the use of garageband.

 

The teachers are also now starting to come onboard. We have a Reception teacher who uses a lot of photographs of the pupils doing different activities as evidence of them developing. She now uses the face-recognition in iPhoto to sort her images and then creates an album from them. She then uses iWeb to upload the albums to our server. You could say you can do all of this with Windows. But we did it in around 10 minutes from start to finish and learning on the way.

 

Primary Schools don't have a lot of time to complete tasks. In fact lessons seem to be getting shorter and shorter with the amount of additional crap they have to keep doing. Unless that's just us

 

Also if you buy Windows boxes, you still have to buy the licenses. You buy a mac you get OS X thrown in and iLife (for the cost). Still buying Windows is not really much of a problem IMO.

[SYNACK]

we have Year's 5 and 6 all preferring to use OS X instead of their XP counterpart.

 

Now thats an unfair comparison, comparing the model T of XP to the later versions of OSX. If you were using 7 or at least Vista on the other side then at least they would have a fairer comparison. Besides a lot of the preference is dictated by the opinions of those pushing, if the teacher like OSX better and have the students use it more often then of course they will have more of an inclination to go with that as they know it better in that environment and will probably be looked upon more favorably for using the platform the teacher is more comfortable with.

 

Almost all of this is easily possible with Windows using tools like the live photo gallery, Picasa etc which are all free. Garage band is probably one of the few that there is no real alternative for free on Windows and is usually held up as the main use-case for having Macs.

 

The use of Macs in a school can be a good thing as it does expose the users to another platform but does add complexity and cost making them work with existing systems and by allowing for a divide between the various teachers and resources. If you are getting Macs just make sure that all the costs and benefits are taken into account rather than buying into the rosy hallucination helpfully provided by apple marketing and their faithful. Get them for platform exposure and because they actually do things that you need them to do well. If there is a good answer to the often unasked question of "Why do we specifically need Macs?" then go to it as you will have success criteria and a direction for the usage of the hardware in the future.

[HodgeHi]

Now thats an unfair comparison, comparing the model T of XP to the later versions of OSX. If you were using 7 or at least Vista on the other side then at least they would have a fairer comparison. Besides a lot of the preference is dictated by the opinions of those pushing, if the teacher like OSX better and have the students use it more often then of course they will have more of an inclination to go with that as they know it better in that environment and will probably be looked upon more favorably for using the platform the teacher is more comfortable with.

 

But since we are talking about cost. We have no real need to upgrade Windows XP to 7. For this point there is no real advantage to spending the cost. Yes it looks different but overall the usability is more or less the same. Granted more stable, and efficient but from an end-user's POV the same. If you can use XP then you should be able to find your way around Vista/Win7.

 

I have been thinking about the possibility of upgrading XP to 7. Still am. I do see that the younger pupils need to start using the OS that will be theirs in the future.

 

The teacher preference is quite a funny thing at our School. You see, the teacher who taught our Year 5's didn't know anything about OS X until she started working here. She got familiar with them at the same time as the kids through topics based on learning OS X. That year 5 is now Year 6. They are taught by a teacher that still moans about her blackboard being taken away, at every opportunity each day. But yet the pupils still prefer to use OS X over the windows side. But it is their choice. The teacher would prefer not to use either

 

Almost all of this is easily possible with Windows using tools like the live photo gallery, Picasa etc which are all free. Garage band is probably one of the few that there is no real alternative for free on Windows and is usually held up as the main use-case for having Macs.

 

I can honestly say i have never tried to use these pieces of software or seen them. I have heard of them however. How to they integrate? Because I think that's what gives OS X a slight advantage over Windows. The integration is tighter. It may sound like I'm just iterating the Mac Ads but it is true. You see creating the albums in iPhoto them allows you to just drag them right onto your iWeb site. They come right from iPhoto. There's no need to mess around with imports/exports. Just an example.

 

The use of Macs in a school can be a good thing as it does expose the users to another platform but does add complexity and cost making them work with existing systems and by allowing for a divide between the various teachers and resources. If you are getting Macs just make sure that all the costs and benefits are taken into account rather than buying into the rosy hallucination helpfully provided by apple marketing and their faithful. Get them for platform exposure and because they actually do things that you need them to do well. If there is a good answer to the often unasked question of "Why do we specifically need Macs?" then go to it as you will have success criteria and a direction for the usage of the hardware in the future.

 

We looked at them and looked at the costs involved. We also looked at what benefits they would bring. We had the money at the time. We also didn't have the room for any more ICT suites (so buying 2 PC's for one mac just wasn't going to work for us ). We also purchased a 5 year warranty with each mac. So we know for sure that they are going to last at least 5 years without needing to spend any money for repairs.

 

We are happy with our setup and are happy with how our ICT has developed. We can teach our kids email, we now run our own mail server for staff also. We have full control over our Website. We have a VLE which should be more economical in the long term to run. We have a lot of things that we would have needed additional licenses for if we went with the MS alternatives. Yes you can do it with open source but then you would need the skills/time to configure and build them.

 

Sorry if this sounds like a rant or a defensive attack. It's not supposed to.

[mbrunt]

I dont feel that primary school children will benefit from macs, and indeed if mac os was the only os you used with them I actually feel like you would be giving them a disadvantage. Most high schools, and colleges use windows for the majority of machines, as does 90% of industry.

 

I really feel like os x should be left to the arty/media types.

 

Also - there is little support for os x, little amounts of software, all the woe of integration, unless you HAVE to deliver osx i really wouldn't bother.

[mbrunt]

as for primary school kids being able to complete tasks quicker than using windows....isnt that just because os x has "toy-town" type applications? designed for people who cant use a "real" os??

[SYNACK]

But since we are talking about cost. We have no real need to upgrade Windows XP to 7. For this point there is no real advantage to spending the cost. Yes it looks different but overall the usability is more or less the same. Granted more stable, and efficient but from an end-user's POV the same. If you can use XP then you should be able to find your way around Vista/Win7

I have been thinking about the possibility of upgrading XP to 7. Still am. I do see that the younger pupils need to start using the OS that will be theirs in the future.

.

Granted however I was just questioning the comparison and cost wise a Windows 7 box will be cheaper on average than a Mac.

The teacher preference is quite a funny thing at our School. You see, the teacher who taught our Year 5's didn't know anything about OS X until she started working here. She got familiar with them at the same time as the kids through topics based on learning OS X. That year 5 is now Year 6. They are taught by a teacher that still moans about her blackboard being taken away, at every opportunity each day. But yet the pupils still prefer to use OS X over the windows side. But it is their choice. The teacher would prefer not to use either

 

I know teachers like that also

 

I can honestly say i have never tried to use these pieces of software or seen them. I have heard of them however. How to they integrate? Because I think that's what gives OS X a slight advantage over Windows. The integration is tighter. It may sound like I'm just iterating the Mac Ads but it is true. You see creating the albums in iPhoto them allows you to just drag them right onto your iWeb site. They come right from iPhoto. There's no need to mess around with imports/exports. Just an example.

 

They do integrate very tightly with online web services, it is a case of providing a youtube logon to upload a finished video to youtube from live moviemaker for instance and a similar experience with Picasa of Live Photogallery. Have not really tried the local integration though as short of a VLE internal intranet documents are worked on right from word just like any other document.

 

It may be a little more diverse than the Mac approach but the EU would fine them the first born of every Microsoft employee and the GDP of the US for several years if they dared to implement that much bundled functionality in Windows. I think that this is one of the main reasons for this difference between the products.

 

We looked at them and looked at the costs involved. We also looked at what benefits they would bring. We had the money at the time. We also didn't have the room for any more ICT suites (so buying 2 PC's for one mac just wasn't going to work for us ). We also purchased a 5 year warranty with each mac. So we know for sure that they are going to last at least 5 years without needing to spend any money for repairs.

 

We are happy with our setup and are happy with how our ICT has developed. We can teach our kids email, we now run our own mail server for staff also. We have full control over our Website. We have a VLE which should be more economical in the long term to run. We have a lot of things that we would have needed additional licenses for if we went with the MS alternatives. Yes you can do it with open source but then you would need the skills/time to configure and build them.

 

Sorry if this sounds like a rant or a defensive attack. It's not supposed to.

 

No problem with your reply, it sounds like you did the appropriate investigations at the start and had good justification for the purchase along with taking the appropriate steps to safeguard your investment (5 year warrenty). It also sounds like it is being well used and as all those criteria were met it could be considered a sensible decision in the case of your school. Sorry if my original reply sounded harsh also it was just meant to put foward the case for reason over rashness in any decision regarding a computer purchase.

[GrumbleDook]

@mbrunt after laughing at the open trolling I thought that actually you have a point ... many people do actually believe some of this and it falls down to the fact that if a teacher is comfortable teaching with something, or kids learning with something then saying it isn't suitable is a pile of rubbish. Ok ... perhaps it is wrong for me to just jump on things like that but let's take it to a slightly different viewpoint.

 

The things that makes the biggest difference to kids learning is a darn good teacher. As far as technology goes what is chosen matters little as long as it allows a good teacher to be good, helps ok teachers move towards becoming good teachers and it doesn't become a barrier to learning / teaching. Having said that there are lots of ways that the choice *does* make a difference, but that is because sometimes the little choices can help people make big steps. This might be because it is efficient, it is engaging, it supports communication, it has a good scheme of work attached to it ... but more often that not the problem that you have in schools is that an application is taught rather than the skill. There are times when it is applicable such as pro apps in music or graphic design ... but generally it should make little difference what OS or apps you use.

 

Ok ... once you have got through the educational side of things *then* the school can start making choices around whether it is cost effective, whether the support overhead overrides the possible educational benefits and your input into this is important but has to be part of the balanced approach.

 

I can think of lots of apps which can be used educationally on a Mac, and some of it comes down to the little fact that almost *anything* can be used educationally with a bit of thought and application.

[HodgeHi]

@Synack,

 

I agree with what you say about the Eu. It is somewhat unfair. While i see the point with what that they are doing or trying to restrict, it restricts just what MS can do for the end-user. Apple have proven this with the integration of their software.

 

@mbrunt,

 

What would you consider a real OS? I'm curious. I consider a real OS one that lets you get on with the tasks at hand. That doesn't get in the way. IMO a real OS should never really be noticed.

And i do think in some instances our kids can produce work at a quicker pace. E.g in Pages they don't have to mess about with the formatting of the images on the page just to stop text from going all over the place. You could argue that these are things that should be taught. But does word 2007 still do this (honestly, I've no idea. I've never used it ).?

 

Also in some aspects having a simple interface to work with can help. A simple Finder, for example can assist in the younger children in developing their skills without the risk of damaging an install of the OS. We don't just cater for kids aged between 7-10 or whatever year 5 and 6 are. We have to cater right from Nursery level up to year 6. This has its own problems.

 

@GrumbleDook,

 

I agree with what you saying with regards to how the software/hardware is used by teachers. Surely having options/alternatives is also a good thing. There's some good Windows only software and some good Mac only software.

 

Also some Windows only software can work on macs too, if they're tweaked a bit