Building Control Systems: Matter Controller?

[dhicks]

Hello All,

 

I've been looking at adding some timers to various powered devices. I'm looking at starting with our lobby display screens (currently using basic plug-in mains timers) and the lit trophy display cabinets, working our way up to timers for laptop charging cabinets and, possibly, heating / aircon appliances. We use Ubiquiti switches and wireless access points, so I did have a quick look at their controllable power devices, but those seem to be US-only and, I think, recently discontinued.

 

I saw the press releases from Ikea a little while back saying about how their new home automation range is going ot be Matter compatible / certified, which resulted in me having a look at what Matter is. If I understand correctly, it's a cross-supplier standard that seems to be quite well supported. I had a look at Ikea and TP-Link's Matter power controllers, but in the end I think we're likely to go for something like the Shelly 1PM Gen4 - not an "end user" sort of device, but handily small enough to fit in a power socket pattress and seems to be properly specified to handle 16A loads (resistive, inductive and capacative, which before I started looking at this I didn't know were different things), complete with power monitoring (around £22, so a realistic price to be able to buy and tinker with):

 

https://kb.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-1pm-gen4

 

Does anyone currently have a building-wide networked device control / monitoring system set up? If so, do you have some sort of central, preferably web-based, control panel / dashboard set up that people can log in to for control and to get data about entergy usage and so on? I'm aiming for something "enterprise ready", so something that can handle multiple users, preferably handling Google logins, with some users able to just read usage data, but some (site staff, etc) able to change things like timer settings. It would be good for pupils to be able to get involved, certainly at least in the reading and processing of power usage data.

 

The most comprehensive controller / dashboard I've found so far would seem to be Home Assistant:

 

https://www.home-assistant.io/

 

I've not figured out so far how that handles logins.

[TechMonkey]

As ever with this kind of kit, be very careful.  It is consumer kit, not enterprise.  You will end up with all sorts of niggles and incompatibilities due to it never being considered to be used except with a small IP range and a flat network.

Even when they are supposedly enterprise the results are varied.  We have had a heating control system installed that is meant to be enterprise. Doesn't like VLANs, can't talk across ranges and doesn't like being in warm areas, which is a slight flaw I fell in a boiler room.

[dhicks]

20 minutes ago, TechMonkey said:

As ever with this kind of kit, be very careful. It is consumer kit, not enterprise.

 

That's pretty much the bit I'm trying to figure out - what makes for a suitible "enterprise" building control / monitoring solution? That Shelly 1PM Gen4 does, at least from the hardware specifications, seem to be a proper bit of home / office / light industrial kit. I've not looked at building control networks much recently, so I don't know what software is going to be suitible. My plan is to look at Home Assistant (which, despite its name, looks like it might handle the average office or school as well), but if anyone has any experience with something they reackon would be more suitible that would be great to hear about.

 

Putting the Matter devices on their own VLAN segment does sounds like a very sensible idea. As I gather most Matter-compatible devices seem to operate over WiFi rather than wired ethernet (not sure if that's actually an option for Matter, again I'd like to hear from anyone who actually knows) I think we're most likely to create a separate SSID on our wireless network for these devices to use.

[psydii]

Sometimes one regrets asking questions. 

 

School and Further Education College Design and Construction - GOV.UK
Technical annex 2G: electrical services, communications, fire and security systems

Technical annex 2H: energy

GDB_Annex_2I_Controls-A-C12

 

Electrical standards and approved codes of practice - HSE

BS EN IEC 61439-1:2021 Low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assemblies General rules

 

[psydii]

The "enterprise" BMS are not renowned for playing well in "enterprise" LANs. They are also very very complex, and often slightly misconfigured because the number of variables makes them very hard to properly debug. A few bits of Shelly-grade automations on non critical systems on its own vlan shouldn't be too much trouble from a reliability/configurability perspective.. so as long as you don't get carried away and promise more than it can reliably delivery. It is complying with building codes that is the hard part.

Edited December 9, 2025 by psydii

[robyholmes]

I need to do a bit more digging into Matter. But my understanding is that 'Matter' is a 'Technical Standard' for compatibility. The idea being that if it's Matter certified, it can talk to other Matter devices. What it isn't, is a communication method. So Matter itself sits on top of other communication methods, be that Thread (An IPv6 based mesh network, the replacement for Zigbee), or standard TCP/IP. TCP/IP then of course sits on top of good old cooper ethernet cable or wibbly wobbly radio waves WiFi.

Matter was/is the 'New IOT standard' but it's struggled to gain much traction in the number of years is been 'Coming'. Mainly as Zigbee, Z-Wave (US) or Tuya (Chinese IOT Cloud Platform) has been the dominate forces in the smart home devices world and once you pick one of them, you tend to stick to it.

 

Now in terms of use in schools or business. You do have to careful what you opt for. Shelly I would compare to Ubiquiti, above the Aldi Smart Plug, but below your Trend or Schneider Electric BMS. Is it a good fit for a school? Yer I'd say it likely is for simpler tasks such as lighting, ventilation, blinds, school bell etc. When you get into heating, AC etc. Your into more complex protocols that normally sit on either the 'Domestic' or 'Commercial Side' of things. Which for a school means your likely going to hit a wall of licencing & non-open protocols to talk to commercial sized systems.

 

Will this change over time as IOT becomes more mature? Yes I suspect it will. Shelly especially is really showing they can work with larger brands to link up together, allowing shelly devices to say provide sensor inputs to more complex control system.

[psydii]

if the switching hardware doesn't meet the BSI standard for insulation, fire retardance etc, it doesn't matter what protocol it uses.

[robyholmes]

1 minute ago, psydii said:

if the switching hardware doesn't meet the BSI standard for insulation, fire retardance etc, it doesn't matter what protocol it uses.

Depends if what your doing is part of a fixed installation of course. But yes you do still need to comply with everything electrically wise. But there's nothing wrong with IT working with a certified electrician or low voltage tech to provide a pre-configured control system. Many electricians these days are glad that the 1/0s bit is done for them, so they can do the bit they are good at.

[southhamster]

Just now, psydii said:

if the switching hardware doesn't meet the BSI standard for insulation, fire retardance etc, it doesn't matter what protocol it uses.

Exactly. As a Home Assistant user of several years I've found it completely reliable, well supported and connects with everything I want, including bin collection days! However that is as a home user/tinkerer. If it's in school it would be another platform for you to support, although it's not hard to find online help. IOT hardware on the other hand, I've found very mixed. A lot is poorly made/borderline unsafe, unreliable and no or intermittent updates and support. If you have a BMS, could you get some devices added to that? If not, maybe get some quotes so you see what kit installers might recommend? Good luck! 

[psydii]

15 minutes ago, robyholmes said:

Depends if what your doing is part of a fixed installation of course. 

If the PAT team see the same extension leads in place they saw the year before, they get antsy... "that needs to be a fixed installation..."

And it could  be pretty hard to argue that a digital switching device in display cabinet bolted to the wall wasn't "fixed" even if its got a 13amp plug on one end depending on the electrician you were talking to.

 

Certainly as soon as you get to AC/Air Handling units, I think you are unquestionably into fixed installation territory  -  I mean these things a drawing 2000W+ which I'm pretty sure exceeds a lot of the Matter IoT devices design specs, so even if its not technically fixed its likely to be a fire hazard.

 

And on laptop trolleys, modern ac adapters and laptop/batteries should have charge management hardware. I'm not sure whether the power you might save with a time based switching device  cutting the power over the weekend would worth the additional complexity it brings.

 

God, I'm being  a right downer on this. Sorry.

[mavhc]

Change what you're switching to be low voltage usb-c powered and avoid problems with 240V.

 

Next question is Matter over Ethernet, Wifi, or Thread?

 

Use a vlan and then all the mDNS and IPv6 things will be off in their own world