What Policies should I manage

[enjay]

Why are these different to other school policies?

 

You misunderstand me. I meant being the person to write them and being the person to enforce them are different things.

[bossman]

@pcstru

 

Delegation..........hmmm!

 

Cute terminology and can be quite effective if used correctly by good managers according to the staff members job spec and if that person is in receipt of the remuneration for that task and responsibility, you seem to feel you are one of these people and therefore you must totally understand the other type which you have already described and I have commented about,

 

I agree with your comments especially with the last one "IMO the bigger problem in schools IS a result of poor management skills, but it is teachers who's management skills seem to be at the level of "treat everyone like a 12 year old child", a problem I put down to being shut in a classroom with children for decades and as a result having little experience of the real world."

 

It beggars belief that Teaching Staff are given management tasks in the first place as they have usually no concept of the term "Manage" nor the qualifications to match.

Yet SLT seem to give them that responsibility without question either to keep that member of Staff happy and an increase in pay which is all that most teaching staff seem to want to do these days for less work! Lets face it if teaching staff take on extra admin duties they seem to drop actual contact time with students so they really don't have any extra workload and then they have the audacity to "Delegate" (Shirk) the actual workload and pass this on to an underling who cannot refuse as they are not in a position to do so plus they don't receive any more remuneration for said extra tasks and responsibility.

 

It seems now that schools remuneration packages pay more for responsibility than for the actual workload so if a person has the positional clout they can claim all the remuneration for being responsible for all those tasks and duties yet not strike a bat when it comes to workload and yet the poor staff member who has been delegated the extra workload without any extra remuneration feels obligated yet frustrated which leads to poor performance long term as they don't put 100% into those extra duties and tasks. Overall it becomes disjointed and at times the whole atmosphere of the school can be effected by a few careless staff members who have these positions of management without the necessary skill sets.

[bossman]

You misunderstand me. I meant being the person to write them and being the person to enforce them are different things.

 

Not at all young man, I clearly understood what you said it seems the other way around in that you don't seem to have grasped what I and others have stated on here over the past few posts,

 

We, as either NM's or Technicians, should only have an input based on our skills and experience levels towards the definitive policies. We should not have to write the policies ourselves and then have SLT verify them as this is not part of our job spec nor at our low pay-grade which doesn't cover us under the responsibility process and thus we receive no remuneration for the extra workload which in fact the members of the SLT do.

 

This is not delegation this is getting someone else to the leg work and then reaping the rewards for their hard work.

[enjay]

Not at all young man, I clearly understood what you said it seems the other way around in that you don't seem to have grasped what I and others have stated on here over the past few posts,

 

We, as either NM's or Technicians, should only have an input based on our skills and experience levels towards the definitive policies. We should not have to write the policies ourselves and then have SLT verify them as this is not part of our job spec nor at our low pay-grade which doesn't cover us under the responsibility process and thus we receive no remuneration for the extra workload which in fact the members of the SLT do.

 

This is not delegation this is getting someone else to the leg work and then reaping the rewards for their hard work.

 

You don't know what is in my job spec or what pay grade I am...

I accept some (unfortunately a large number of) managers shirk jobs in the name of delegation, and that is bad management, but to paint all managers with that brush is unfair.

[GrumbleDook]

Not at all young man, I clearly understood what you said it seems the other way around in that you don't seem to have grasped what I and others have stated on here over the past few posts,

 

We, as either NM's or Technicians, should only have an input based on our skills and experience levels towards the definitive policies. We should not have to write the policies ourselves and then have SLT verify them as this is not part of our job spec nor at our low pay-grade which doesn't cover us under the responsibility process and thus we receive no remuneration for the extra workload which in fact the members of the SLT do.

 

This is not delegation this is getting someone else to the leg work and then reaping the rewards for their hard work.

 

If you are not being paid to do it then it *should* operate like this ...

 

Relevant person designated with 'owning' the policy goes to get there relevant information and where they don't know it that ask others. That will involve speaking to the various folk to find out a) what legislation / guidance / rules are out there that should be considered (this is something that the policy owner should do for themselves and the exercise with others is to see if anything has been missed ... it shouldn't have been, but you have to check anyway), b) how things are operationally running at the moment (there should be existing policies and procedures in place for most of these and the policy owner should know these extremely well, and should just be checking if they are being followed and whether they are still suitable ... and feedback from subject matter experts is vital here ... but it is feedback, not rewriting) and c) looking at opportunities to improve ... and this is where those not being paid to write policies fit in. As subject matter experts, you should have a point in the process where you can feedback about issues, needed improvements, etc. You are not rewriting policy, but mainly dealing with procedures linked to that policy. Unless there is a person or contracted service that is also writing your procedures for you (you check logs on AV on day x, you check for replacement toners on day y, etc.) then *that* is your day job and part of the lifecycle management is feeding back into the policy.

 

Under managed services ... yes, you are effectively doing nothing of this. Under a normal school contract, then most JDs will put you in place to deal with procedures.

[sparkeh]

I think that we need to accept that all our situations are different: different roles, responsibilities, expectations, pay grades. The answer to the OP is not "no you shouldn't have responsibilties for any of those" or "yes you should have responsibilities for those and more". We don't know the OPs employment conditions or what his workplace is like (or any other member really). We can only respond from our own perspective based on our own experience. We can only advise, not dictate.

 

In my experience, its is my job to manage some of these policies. No one can argue with that. This is the way it is based on my job role, job spec, expectations from the school and pay grade. I keep abreast of developments that may affect these polices, feedback to and advise both the Governors and SLT. The issues are discussed and if required put to the wider staff. If changes are to be required I make the changes which are reviewed by SLT and the Governors for their approval. They are then responsible for enforcing these policies. It works here without the 'inevitable' negative consequences that have been asserted.

 

But of course, your mileage may vary

Edited September 26, 2017 by sparkeh

[bossman]

@sparkeh

 

If it is within your job specifications to write these policies then that's what you have to do as you will also receive the remuneration as part of your role if this is what it states.

 

I am not saying that NM's or Technicians shouldn't do this at all but only when they are not responsible for these in their JD's as they will not receive the remuneration for the responsibilities yet the SLT team members will,

 

Its not a case of whats expected, some peoples expectations can be very high and therefore those members of staff who are on the receiving end of supposedly delegated tasks can feel overwhelmed at times and this is indeed multiplied greatly when they don't even receive the remuneration for this. This only leads to bad feelings and poor performance which then effects the team and whole schools dynamics.

 

Does you JD specifically state that you write these policies out and that you are specifically responsible for them or are you just assuming that you are?

 

I am quite clear in my JD and my role within school and I keep to those rigidly as it suits both my team and the school for me to do so, they would not take kindly to me having grandiose thoughts in relation to my standing within the school dynamics.

[pcstru]

Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, if an eSafety or Acceptable Use policy appeared out of the blue without any involvement from IT, there would likely be justified complaints, as the policy will impact operational delivery. Now, I may not be responsible and accountable for the policy but I am responsible and accountable for IT operationally. So IMO it is a matter of courtesy that someone would ask for input. If the policy is quite tightly bound to IT as AUP or eSafety, then I might expect to do a lot of the heavy lifting (mostly write it) even though I don't own the end product. I'd not delegate that to technicians - I'd agree with @bossman that it does not live at that level but IMO it may well be appropriate for someone at the Network Manager level.

[bossman]

@pcstru

 

I accept that this would inevitably impact on the IT dept at operational level from the IT Network manager's point of view but this should still in effect require only an experienced input from that point with no reason to have to write the whole policy as this is an SLT responsibility if I'm not mistaken unless that IT network manager is part of the SLT team.

 

This is the crux of the matter in that there is a great disparage within Education as to roles within the support teams.

 

Some schools revere their support staff and therefore certain support staff actually reach the SLT member status to which they thoroughly deserve in my opinion and therefore have a valid input into writing actual policies not just partial input.

 

What are your thoughts?

[the_quick]

Fully agree with above. Be part of such policy, have your input and that's it.

[pcstru]

@pcstru

 

I accept that this would inevitably impact on the IT dept at operational level from the IT Network manager's point of view but this should still in effect require only an experienced input from that point with no reason to have to write the whole policy as this is an SLT responsibility if I'm not mistaken unless that IT network manager is part of the SLT team.

 

This is the crux of the matter in that there is a great disparage within Education as to roles within the support teams.

 

Some schools revere their support staff and therefore certain support staff actually reach the SLT member status to which they thoroughly deserve in my opinion and therefore have a valid input into writing actual policies not just partial input.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

I'd say that rather than being related to SLT membership, it is related to the job specification and that might be quite specific to your role in your school. So mine would cover producing a policy related to IT and some other areas, yours may not. In most senses, how revered staff are makes no difference to what is contractually required of them.

[bossman]

@pcstru

 

I see where you might feel this falls into contractual obligation but when one looks into the responsibility of the policy writing itself this can only be done at SLT level in my opinion as this level of management responsibility is required to actually carry the necessary weight to all the other members of Staff otherwise it becomes just another useless piece of scripture which Staff choose to ignore at the schools peril.

 

I therefore, have to disagree with what you are saying in terms of who should be writing these policies due to the level of membership required to impose to other members of Staff the relevance of such school policies.

 

This is just my opinion and you and anyone else has the right to theirs...................just saying like!

[pcstru]

@pcstru

 

I see where you might feel this falls into contractual obligation but when one looks into the responsibility of the policy writing itself this can only be done at SLT level in my opinion as this level of management responsibility is required to actually carry the necessary weight to all the other members of Staff otherwise it becomes just another useless piece of scripture which Staff choose to ignore at the schools peril.

 

I therefore, have to disagree with what you are saying in terms of who should be writing these policies due to the level of membership required to impose to other members of Staff the relevance of such school policies.

 

This is just my opinion and you and anyone else has the right to theirs...................just saying like!

 

Well ... I'd say the content of my job specification and contract is not a "feeling" or an "opinion". If I was asked to produce a policy, I'm not going to get away with "we will have to agree to disagree" with my boss.

 

With policy I think the key is not who writes the policy but who signs it off as an approved/official policy and then how that policy is promulgated and the practice assured. I might write policy but I don't enforce it as such (I simply flag breaches to the appropriate people). If people are not following policy it is initially a line management issue and eventually, if the person continues to ignore policy, a matter for capability/performance management and eventually, if necessary, dismissal. So I think if you work in a school and policy is routinely ignored because of who it was written by, then you have systemic management issues that go far beyond inappropriate delegation.

[bossman]

@pcstru

 

Question then?

 

Is it in your contract to write policies and do you receive the remuneration that should go with this?

 

If the answer to this is yes then you are contractually obliged to write these policies as I have previously stated and receive the remuneration package that it incurs, what I have also discussed prior is that we as a group are constantly bemoaning how we are put upon by SLT to do things which are not in our contracts but because we fear the outcome of those in a position to so call "delegate" (shirk in my way of thinking).

 

If as I have stated earlier it is not part of your contractual duty then you don't do it............simple really.

 

The original poster asked which policies should he write?

 

A myriad of answers came their way with some stating its part of what they assumed was their duty but was not in fact written into their JDs so they were in fact taking responsibility for writing those policies even though they were not receiving the remuneration for taking that responsibility.

 

We also discussed delegation to which you stated you would not delegate these tasks or duties to your technicians which we both agreed was a valid point to which I had already made.

 

The point I was making which is simplistic in its entirety is this: You are either contractually obliged to write these policies or not, if you are then because of the responsibility which surrounds school policies which in my opinion is at an SLT level the person who has been contractually obliged to write these policies should by rights be a part of the SLT team as this follows logical reasoning.

 

All too often are members of the SLT team taking the remuneration for duties that they themselves should be undertaking because they are in receipt of remuneration specific to that responsibility and then passing the workload by way of "Delegation" which you declared you would not do and taking the remuneration for work being completed by someone else who is not.

 

This in my honest opinion is poor management skills and only leads to a dysfunctional level of staff productivity and generates ill feeling and poor dynamics within the school as a whole.

 

Just my opinion but I do feel very strongly about this and the people on this forum who are tasked by delegation to fulfil these tasks adding to their ever increasing workload and thus pushing them into decline whether it be their mental status or their health as a whole.

[pcstru]

@pcstru

 

Question then?

 

Is it in your contract to write policies and do you receive the remuneration that should go with this?

My Job Description does not explicitly say I will write Policy, either named ones or generally. It does explicitly say I will follow policy and that I am responsible for ensuring departments I manage, follow them. There is stuff about leadership, strategy and contributing to that, that to me make it quite reasonable to think that writing the occasional policy is in scope. It is not like I am being asked to clean toilets (to pick something hopefully everyone might agree is out of scope!)

 

Do I get the pay to go with it? Well ... now ... that is a hugely difficult question. They obviously pay me enough that I've stuck around. I've mostly hugely enjoyed my time working in a School. I like that our end product is not just abstract profit, it is changing the rest of peoples lives - hopefully for the better. I don't believe our education system is anywhere close to being great, but it is a lot better than nothing.

 

I agree that there are some pervasive ... almost stereotypical of schools, management failings. they are IMO around management of out of domain delivery - operationally and strategically. What I mean by that is that teachers are generally not challenged to manage people outside of their domain of teaching. They start as teachers and then take on responsibility for managing teachers and the delivery of teaching or teaching outcomes. Managerially they are underdeveloped because they don't have to deal with anything out of domain, i.e. stuff they are not themselves expert in. They can deliver operationally and drive strategic change because they are intimate with the domain - not actually the management of it, so the skills managers normally use to do that are not actually needed ... until they are!

 

what I have also discussed prior is that we as a group

This kind of generalisation can be problematic. What do you actually mean by "we as a group"? There are as many opinions here as there are people. Our 'groupiness' is property of arbitrarily being contributors to a forum. We don't even all work in schools; Edugeek is a triangle of Schools/Suppliers/The Management (may benevolence herself shine always on their blessed selves). If you have a group in mind, it may only be in your mind - or at least the assumed group in my mind may differ.

are constantly bemoaning how we are put upon by SLT to do things which are not in our contracts but because we fear the outcome of those in a position to so call "delegate" (shirk in my way of thinking).

It is not obvious to me that our contractual obligations are made transparent by our posts in here. I would agree that you are right that there is a fairly constant flow of dissatisfaction but often that is met with everything from sympathy to derision; there are as many opinions as there are posters (yes dear lurkers, that's right, your opinion just doesn't count).

If as I have stated earlier it is not part of your contractual duty then you don't do it............simple really.

We - me and you, as a group of my creation, agree on that and generally, if you feel you are being put upon, push back. The one thing I would say to everyone who is employed : join a union. That is a group that is purposely there to expertly represent YOUR interests. Not being a member of a union is like going into court without a lawyer or, to put it in language that is hopefully rings a bell, like asking an ICT teacher to configure your network infrastructure (if you are an ICT teacher you are invited to self-identify with those exceptions which prove the rule - there will always be some).

Edited September 27, 2017 by pcstru

[bossman]

@pcstru

 

My Job Description does not explicitly say I will write Policy, either named ones or generally.

 

In other words it doesn't!

 

 

that to me make it quite reasonable to think that writing the occasional policy is in scope.

 

Again assuming something that is not clearly defined!

 

 

It is not like I am being asked to clean toilets (to pick something hopefully everyone might agree is out of scope!)

 

You are basically being asked to do something which is not a part of your role (See line above)

 

 

Do I get the pay to go with it? Well ... now ... that is a hugely difficult question.

 

If as you have stated above that you are not contractually obliged to write policies defined or otherwise then the answer is simply "No"

 

I agree that there are some pervasive ... almost stereotypical of schools, management failings.

 

Something we both agree on and its not just "some" its all of those teachers who have been in education all of their lives from leaving school to College to University back to Teaching, they have no understanding of the real world in which we live and work but yet seem to want to overpower and treat others like students in their classroom, this is quite demeaning to other professionals who have more qualifications and experience in life than they ever hope to gain.

 

 

This kind of generalisation can be problematic. What do you actually mean by "we as a group"?

 

I should have stated "We as a group of IT professionals" my bad, not generalising just typo, its not an assumed group of like minded people it is factually us on this forum of those who work in education, I should have been more specific. Many opinions are shared but one fact remains that there has been an increasing amount of IT staff within education who have suffered or are indeed suffering from mental health issues and/or overwork because they are not in a position to push back for fear of reprisal from those very teachers who have found themselves in managerial positions but don't have the necessary managerial skills to treat others in a way which they should be managed.

 

 

It is not obvious to me that our contractual obligations are made transparent by our posts in here. I would agree that you are right that there is a fairly constant flow of dissatisfaction but often that is met with everything from sympathy to derision; there are as many opinions as there are posters (yes dear lurkers, that's right, your opinion just doesn't count). I would agree that you are right that there is a fairly constant flow of dissatisfaction.

 

It seems very transparent to me, I have had many members on here PM me because of the way they are feeling about certain positions they have found themselves in due to poor leadership decisions from SLT and teachers who have systematically pushed them to their extreme limits of mental capacity without a care.

 

 

We - me and you, as a group of my creation, agree on that and generally, if you feel you are being put upon, push back. The one thing I would say to everyone who is employed : join a union. That is a group that is purposely there to expertly represent YOUR interests. Not being a member of a union is like going into court without a lawyer or, to put it in language that is hopefully rings a bell, like asking an ICT teacher to configure your network infrastructure (if you are an ICT teacher you are invited to self-identify with those exceptions which prove the rule - there will always be some).

 

I agree totally with this the only caveat I would make is that the union we have to represent us is not as good as the Teachers Union but I wish it was.