Will The Disinformation Ever Stop?

[contink]

I disagree about the need to sit on the fence- I think recent reports about the negative effects of BSF and the results of that initiative on this very forum can be seen by all.

In fairness, where are these reports? I've yet to see anything that constitutes a decent data set from which to draw conclusions. Sure we can surmise and draw from other outsourcing projects but in relation to BSF specifically we don't have that much data yet.

 

It's a pedants point I'll agree but it's points like this that will get our "facts" smacked down so we need to be clear.

 

I really can't find it in me to see what good "educational" difference BSF makes to schools that other investments wouldn't- without the need to interfere with in-house ICT support structures, staffing, or individual flexibility and innovation within the school. But that's just my opinion.

 

Other than that, like I said, sounds good!

In large part I'd agree however as DB has noted in other discussion the winners in this are the schools where ICT support and expertise is null and void or the budget has been kidnapped for other things. Overall though my gut is telling me the BSF is a badly thought out idea that is bringing out the worst in management and the politicians.

 

Management see the carrot of a new school with managed services but don't have the luxury or foresight to see the cons to the new arrangement.

 

I'd also tend to agree with DB that the only way this will ever be resolved is by getting in early on the discussion and working with all sides to ensure that the correct resources and SLA's are in place. Sure it's probably akin to working with the enemy but the thing is that in the most part the people on here are employed to keep ICT alive and working in their school so you could argue that this involvement is part of the job description, even if it means you get a bullet at the end.

 

Ultimately though I'm just one more person in the trenches, albeit at a distance, and see little real benefit in the long term.. Just more woolly thinking from westminster idiots who don't have a clue in the real world as they've proven time and again by refusing to leave education alone to work.

[farmerste]

i'm not sure that starting a website knocking bsf will work, i think we need to take a more personal approach, after all we all know the head teacher of our particular school(s).

have a look at my thread about letters to give to SMT, and add your thoughts/input, i can give this to my head, governors, i can also distribute this through internal mail to other schools/governors, so maybe we can do something from within, rather than outside.

 

the other way is to join a union, and arrange for a strike, that might get on TV etc, and if we take the angle- education being sold- it might start something ??

[GrumbleDook]

The only thing with strikes is that the unions aren't interested for reasons I have pointed out before. And media support can easily be twisted into "Look at those nerds ... they are trying to stop the government from building new schools just so they can protect their jobs" ... which is line that one journalist told me was sat on file waiting to be used.

 

Keeping your Head informed and armed with good ideas and practices is the best starting point, but we can see from what is happening in Hackney, that still isn't enough.

 

I would still be interested in hearing from Newcastle members as the LA has taken the ICT out of the proposal as they are running it within the LA. How do people feel about that?

[Dos_Box]

How about you all write down your roles and jobs spec here, including every aspect of IT and other tasks which you do almost daily within the school?

These would be here for reference once schools complain that they managed service no longer does A B and C.

These would also prove as a good point for future BSF IT support contracts to be based upon. And if the press wish to use us as a whipping horse then at least we have an easily accessed body of evidence to fall back on.

[Diello]

The only thing with strikes is that the unions aren't interested for reasons I have pointed out before. And media support can easily be twisted into "Look at those nerds ... they are trying to stop the government from building new schools just so they can protect their jobs" ... which is line that one journalist told me was sat on file waiting to be used.

 

Indeed - which is why complaints about us loosing our jobs needs to be lost from the argument, as soon as we bring that up, that's the comeback that's going to be used.

 

We need to stick to the concise points about the huge cracks in BSF - that the school will loose it's ability to innovate, that support will be inadepquete for the needs of education, the inherant problems of middleware and outsourcing. Arguments need to be given attention without it decending into the "I'm going to become a mouse-technician"-argument.

 

This ISN'T about our jobs - it's about the future generations, about the innovations in education, being - quite possibly - serverly disadvantaged by BSF. Forget about our jobs, we'll go work in industry, fine, lets worry about T&L going to the dogs.

 

If we harp on about our jobs - then that argument that's waiting in the wings wins. We need to make it clear this is nothing to do with us stopping the Gov. building new schools, that's a brilliant idea to me - the issue is why, as a part of that, it's necessary to rip out good IT systems, and replace it with baseline models. As I've said before, yes, the sub-standard schools DO need something doing about the state of their ICT, but why are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater? There are much better alternative solutions - that would probably be easier to implement - but it doesn't benefit big business... oh... I see...

[Grommit]

.

 

the other way is to join a union, and arrange for a strike, that might get on TV etc, and if we take the angle- education being sold- it might start something ??

 

This will play right into the BSF's hands as one of their fear angles is "What happens if your network manager walks out" ..

[broc]

The BSF support model proposed by Partnership for Schools plays heavily upon school fears that its IT support staff may leave suddenly or go long term sick and exploits the fear by offering them an 'insurance' policy to provide support from elsewhere.

 

This 'offer' relies upon the fact that all BSF schools look the same in ICT terms so you can send any technician to any school & they will know what to expect.

 

It is difficult to argue against this without sounding as if you are only interested in protecting your job. I had hopes that the teaching staff & their unions would wake up to the support issues but so far they appear not to care.

[Diello]

The BSF support model proposed by Partnership for Schools plays heavily upon school fears that its IT support staff may leave suddenly or go long term sick and exploits the fear by offering them an 'insurance' policy to provide support from elsewhere.

 

This 'offer' relies upon the fact that all BSF schools look the same in ICT terms so you can send any technician to any school & they will know what to expect.

 

It is difficult to argue against this without sounding as if you are only interested in protecting your job. I had hopes that the teaching staff & their unions would wake up to the support issues but so far they appear not to care.

 

...and that is a fair argument to an extent - however, what is the insurance against the company going bust? We've all seen seemingly stable companies go bust very easily, and that would affect far more students than me falling under a bus.

 

Also the question is where do you stop? That argument goes for everything - in any job, people are employed to do a set something - the person or people doing that are just as likely to vanish as IT staff are - should there job be outsourced to? The SLT isn't that much bigger than IT Services here - what happened if all of them "vanished" as seems to be the fear that we will? There'll be no-one to make decisions and run the school - opps, better outsource that too... What if the Head of History goes? Someone would have to come in and learn the SoW, and the particularities of that department - opps, better out source that too, just in case.

 

Most school DO look the same in IT terms - How many schools use either Windows, Linux, or Mac - vs - use something totally unknown? - Most of us use the same basis for our networks - and as such - any decent M$ or Linux sysadmin should be able to come in, and get their head around how things work pretty easily.

 

Is killing innovation in schools really worth it because of the fear that 3-odd people might all get killed by a bus in the same day?

Edited March 7, 2008 by Diello

[GrumbleDook]

...and that is a fair argument to an extent - however, what is the insurance against the company going bust? We've all seen seemingly stable companies go bust very easily, and that would affect far more students than me falling under a bus.

 

Also the question is where do you stop? That argument goes for everything - in any job, people are employed to do a set something - the person or people doing that are just as likely to vanish as IT staff are - should there job be outsourced to? The SLT isn't that much bigger than IT Services here - what happened if all of them "vanished" as seems to be the fear that we will? There'll be no-one to make decisions and run the school - opps, better outsource that too... What if the Head of History goes? Someone would have to come in and learn the SoW, and the particularities of that department - opps, better out source that too, just in case.

 

Most school DO look the same in IT terms - How many schools use either Windows, Linux, or Mac - vs - use something totally unknown? - Most of us use the same basis for our networks - and as such - any decent M$ or Linux sysadmin should be able to come in, and get their head around how things work pretty easily.

 

Is killing innovation in schools really worth it because of the fear that 3-odd people might all get killed by a bus in the same day?

 

I've heard these questions raised before and there are stock answers.

 

Should the whole SLT disappear then the LA can step in with support from existing staff and governors. In Trust Schools it is with the assistance the board of trustess as well, and Academies with the support of the SSAT. SLTs have been outsourced previously ... and that is one of the reasons why you get federated schools. LAs have been known to place Heads in particular schools by force to address issues. SLT are not exempt from this sort of thing.

 

The risk of companies going bust is seriously limited by the tender process. Included in majority of EU procurement processes are risk analysis on the financial safety of the companies. This includes the company winning more contracts than they are capable of supporting, hence why TUPE is so important to many of the bidding companies. They are relying on getting a pretty full compliment of staff from schools. One of the reasons why some schools are going to have staff taken away is because they will be moved to a school that is presently understaffed even in the company's eyes!

 

When teachers go, then you have a pretty comprehensive cover system within schools, as well as supply teachers, companies that provide short, mid and long term cover ... This is also used to cover areas such as maternity /paternity and long term sick, something which few schools make provision for with associate staff.

 

The questions have come up before and the answers have been around for some years. I first came across this discussion 8 years ago and people had the answers then, some answers have changed as politics and initiatives have changed, but people in the various organisations or businesses still have answers to knock most of these arguements down. The only ones they don't have are the impact on T&L and the impact on innovation.

[browolf]

we should replace all the teachers with robots, because teachers *can* get stressed and go off sick for weeks at a time. Kids dont learn much with a string of supply teachers. Plus robots are immune to the emotional rollercoaster of kids minds and dont stand for any crap.

[SpuffMonkey]

we should replace all the teachers with robots, because teachers *can* get stressed and go off sick for weeks at a time. Kids dont learn much with a string of supply teachers. Plus robots are immune to the emotional rollercoaster of kids minds and dont stand for any crap.

 

Surely this is the ultimate aim and the motivation behind these moves towards VLEs and personalised learning - push all the "teaching" onto a standardised externally managed system and let kids access it from wherever they want - all you need are access points and "facilitators" and you can be rid of expensive, highly unionised teachers for good.

 

Or am I just too cynical

[broc]

...

Most school DO look the same in IT terms - How many schools use either Windows, Linux, or Mac - vs - use something totally unknown? - Most of us use the same basis for our networks - and as such - any decent M$ or Linux sysadmin should be able to come in, and get their head around how things work pretty easily.

 

To an outsider, even a so called 'expert', this may appear to be true. However, the bits that catch you out are the policies, scripts & batch files, tweaks & little work-arounds you have to implement to overcome limitations with the hardware, software and applications or even the curriculum we are asked to support. Unless schools standardise the curriculum and the applications too there will always be subtle differences that will catch out the roaming technician or administrator who is not familiar with that school.

 

In my school for example, for historical reasons we install SIMS.net on the E: drive of the MIS server, while other schools use D:

 

You would be amazed how often this catches out the visiting MIS Support Specialists from the LA

[TechMonkey]

 

When teachers go, then you have a pretty comprehensive cover system within schools, as well as supply teachers, companies that provide short, mid and long term cover ... This is also used to cover areas such as maternity /paternity and long term sick, something which few schools make provision for with associate staff.

 

 

Can't comment on the other points as I don't have the experience or knowledge (although to me it does sound like an in theory answer rather than it would actually work that smoothly in practice) but as for cover systems that is in no way a replacement for a proper teacher, either in house or from an agency. While I have been here there have been a few long term absences and a few that have grown from short term, so have seen various levels of covering. I would say 99% have affected the students badly and only really been supplied to look after the students not the teaching.

 

In contrast, I would expect a 'cover' techie to be able to sort out and keep running a standard network with no problems, printer problems and jams, minor fixes to stations (replace keyboard and mice type stuff) and the other day to day stuff. Ok they wouldn't be expected to plan out anything longterm or any major projects but if the network is ticking along then that shouldn't be a problem. Now it is maybe my bias as a techie but that seems like a higher level of cover to me then just sitting in a room to make sure the kids don't kill each other.

[Computing_editorial]

Hello Edugeeks,

 

I'm a reporter at Computing, a business technology magazine based in London.

 

We've been following the comments which came in response to an article we published at the end of February - The Lure of the Public Sector -written by an external contributor.

 

http://www.computing.co.uk/articles/comments/2210507

 

We'd be very interested to hear people's thoughts about BSF, so if there's anything you like to talk to us about, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

 

Kind regards,

 

Janie Davies

Reporter

Computing

[email protected]

[tech_guy]

Hmmmm, where do we begin.....

 

;-)

[Guest Guest]

http://www.computing.co.uk/articles/comments/2210507

 

We'd be very interested to hear people's thoughts about BSF

 

I think this line from your article just about sums it up, well beside us all losing our jobs that is

 

Innovation in ICT will be taken away from IT professionals and teachers in schools, and placed in the hands of private sector companies, away from those who care, and given to those who want their Christmas bonus.

[Diello]

I think this line from your article just about sums it up, well beside us all losing our jobs that is

 

Actually, that was my comment LOL!

 

I fell like writing this weekend!!

Edited March 7, 2008 by Diello

[donutcat]

I am an IT Manager for an ICT Specialist school, we have nearly 450 workstations, and two techs including myself. As and IT department we also run CCTV, Door security, and such like. Having read up on the BSF proposals following other threads on this site, I happened across the outset template for ICT and read through all 33 pages of it. I am now confident that we have currently a higher baseline system than the one marked as fundamental by P4S. Many things on the list were not only impractical, by also not desireable. I took my findings to my head who has a large involvement with our BSF board at the LA who had less of an idea of what was coming than I did.

 

If our headtachers do not know what is going to happen to the schools, and our BSF board members have no idea about the impact on ICT and IT departments who have we left to talk to about our concerns. It is not about our jobs, as most staff can be TUPED, it is not only about the positives and negatives of outsourcing, it is the question of answerability. T+L is supported in schools by IT because we are there, and we can be told what to do. As managers and senior techs we work with our management teams to strategise the ongoing evolution of our IT provision, but ultimately we answer to the wishes of our respective SLTs. Managed services with TUPED staff will not have that. The senior onsite Tech will have no say as to the devleopment of the IT in that school, only the managers at the service company. Yes, I accept that the service company will be paid for by the school, and will have at least some say on the direction of IT provision, but there will be another line between those that want, and those that do. SLT and IT respectively.

 

In terms of press coverage a consistent and rational arguement against outsourcing and baseline resetting has to be made, as it can only have an impact at a national level. Each BSF project must be evaulated against the P4S baseline, and if it exceeds it leave it well alone, and allow the continual evolution through the existing staff, where the school doesn't then a revolution can be used to kickstart the new school. But outsourcing wholeheartedly, regardless of what is in place is shortsighted in the extreme.

 

DC

[Grommit]

. But outsourcing wholeheartedly, regardless of what is in place is shortsighted in the extreme.

 

DC

 

We must also not forget the impact that it will have on the small ICT Education Suppliers and Support Companies...

 

They'll all be wiped out as the Big 4 take over the Education sector...

 

As well as the impact it will have on the ICT Professional status of the UK as thousands of ICT Professionals are going to turned into Toner Drones and their skill set will be downgraded.....

 

Basicaly the Education Sector is about to lose all their ICT Professionals... being replaced with low grade ICT Technicians..

[TechMonkey]

I am an IT Manager for an ICT Specialist school, we have nearly 450 workstations, and two techs including myself. As and IT department we also run CCTV, Door security, and such like. Having read up on the BSF proposals following other threads on this site, I happened across the outset template for ICT and read through all 33 pages of it. I am now confident that we have currently a higher baseline system than the one marked as fundamental by P4S. Many things on the list were not only impractical, by also not desireable. I took my findings to my head who has a large involvement with our BSF board at the LA who had less of an idea of what was coming than I did.

 

If our headtachers do not know what is going to happen to the schools, and our BSF board members have no idea about the impact on ICT and IT departments who have we left to talk to about our concerns. It is not about our jobs, as most staff can be TUPED, it is not only about the positives and negatives of outsourcing, it is the question of answerability. T+L is supported in schools by IT because we are there, and we can be told what to do. As managers and senior techs we work with our management teams to strategise the ongoing evolution of our IT provision, but ultimately we answer to the wishes of our respective SLTs. Managed services with TUPED staff will not have that. The senior onsite Tech will have no say as to the devleopment of the IT in that school, only the managers at the service company. Yes, I accept that the service company will be paid for by the school, and will have at least some say on the direction of IT provision, but there will be another line between those that want, and those that do. SLT and IT respectively.

 

In terms of press coverage a consistent and rational arguement against outsourcing and baseline resetting has to be made, as it can only have an impact at a national level. Each BSF project must be evaulated against the P4S baseline, and if it exceeds it leave it well alone, and allow the continual evolution through the existing staff, where the school doesn't then a revolution can be used to kickstart the new school. But outsourcing wholeheartedly, regardless of what is in place is shortsighted in the extreme.

 

DC

 

Also add to that the way the set specifications seem to get bumped down during the build and any resistence is either steam rollered over or threats of a full pull out are made.

[Computing_editorial]

Would any of you be prepared to do an interview with us? I'd like to speak to 3-4 IT managers about their personal experiences.