localzuk Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I also think that while it is true that governments are at fault for not tackling the issue, companies do have social responsibilities that should compel them to behave morally, ethically and fairly. The oft heard refrain that companies are obliged to maximise profits above all other considerations, is specious. They are part of society not apart from it. It may be specious, but if it is an American corporation then the law is very much in agreement with that oft heard refrain. Companies have been sued by their shareholders for acting ethically, and thereby reducing profits. So, effectively, you can blame US law for this problem to be honest.
sted Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I wonder how many of them will use their official parliamentary email address to register with apple? The simple iMessage trick that lets you text almost any MP without knowing their mobile number i hope they are all managed devices so that if lost they can be remote wiped by someone as we know what mps are like for losing stuff
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 It may be specious, but if it is an American corporation then the law is very much in agreement with that oft heard refrain. Companies have been sued by their shareholders for acting ethically, and thereby reducing profits. So, effectively, you can blame US law for this problem to be honest. Yeah US corporation law has a lot to answer for. It's (apparently, believably) standard practice for US based corporations to have a lawyers and accountants analyze which laws to obey and which to break to maximize profits - often the sanctions/fines for breaking laws amount to a fraction of the increased profits by breaking them! Very good documentary on the matter, I believe it's currently on Netflix: The Corporation - IMDB 1
Quackers Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This is one of the better decisions the government has made. iOS upgrade costs? Free. Anti Virus subscriptions for iOS? Not needed, don't exist. Much better than being screwed by Microsoft again, like the government paying them 5.5 Million just for the NHS to have XP support for another year. £200,000 seems a bargain in comparison considering that gets your the hardware, and the data service too.
elsiegee40 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I feel a FoI request coming on in 12 months time How many - were issued - still work - have been lost - ever appear in the House of Commons 2
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This is one of the better decisions the government has made. iOS upgrade costs? Free. Anti Virus subscriptions for iOS? Not needed, don't exist. Much better than being screwed by Microsoft again, like the government paying them 5.5 Million just for the NHS to have XP support for another year. £200,000 seems a bargain in comparison considering that gets your the hardware, and the data service too. Except Windows updates are now free too, viruses do exist for Mac, they're just not as common (watch that change now it's public knowledge that the government is giving all MPs Apple devices) and Microsoft have always been up front about how long they'll support their products and actually supported XP for years after they initially promised.
Duranis Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I don't really have any issue with this at all. As a portable device an iPad Air 2 is not a bad choice, it has a sim slot so doesn't need a wifi connection, its simple to use (judging by the actions of some of our MP's this is important ) and its easy to lock down. Supplying a cellular device and a laptop to an employee doesn't really seem that odd to me. Personally any Apple device wouldn't be my first choice as I hate them, but in this case it is a good fit.
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Yeah US corporation law has a lot to answer for. It's (apparently, believably) standard practice for US based corporations to have a lawyers and accountants analyze which laws to obey and which to break to maximize profits - often the sanctions/fines for breaking laws amount to a fraction of the increased profits by breaking them! Very good documentary on the matter, I believe it's currently on Netflix: The Corporation - IMDB If you want your jimmies good and rustled, do watch this.
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 It may be specious, but if it is an American corporation then the law is very much in agreement with that oft heard refrain. Companies have been sued by their shareholders for acting ethically, and thereby reducing profits. So, effectively, you can blame US law for this problem to be honest. We do not live in the US and have no power to change US law so that would be ... pointless. I blame : 1. Us, the voters, because in the end we put up with it, 2. The government, because they do not legislate to close the loopholes, 3. The people who run the corporations, because profit is not the most important thing (sadly many people only seem to realise that on their death beds), 4. Us, the consumers, because ultimately we feed the likes of Apple with our hard earned cash. I find it depressing to see places like schools which are struggling with funding, giving tax payers money to huge multinational corporations who blatantly and unethically avoid paying their fair share of tax yet who wish to take advantage of the infrastructure and benefits that those taxes pay for (roads to transport their goods, educated workers to design their products etc).
difinity Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Thinking about it some more, perhaps they have given them Ipads as they are more secure, can you imagine the phishing emails they must get..."50% off cleaning your moat, just click here"...."25 free ebooks on fudging your expenses"..."is your name on the Operation Ore list ? etc..
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 No, I would call that a company that's actually paying tax. As you did, but asserted that they didn't pay tax in your original post. Technically correct (the very best kind of correct). I'll endeavour to up my game in the pedantically correct stakes in future :-). What the 'fair share' of it is, is entirely subjective next to what's 'legal' and, as far as Apple are concerned *dons sunglasses* the jury's still out on that one. There does seem to be a rising awareness of it as a political issue, with most parties now at least paying lip service to the idea that companies are acting unfairly. We (well, those of us who's juries have delivered a verdict) just need to keep the pressure on. I did think that UK Uncut would have more effect if they paid some tax lawyers to find and publish "tax minimisation strategies" that anyone could use effectively. If we ALL indulged in these practices, they would soon be outlawed but it is sadly another case of one law for the rich...
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 ^ You know what, I did 'dive' on you a bit for that. Sorry old chap. 1
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 ^ You know what, I did 'dive' on you a bit for that. Sorry old chap. No need - you had me bang to rights. Being wrong is always difficult to face up to, so getting in some (more!) practice is never a bad thing.
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Technically correct (the very best kind of correct). I'll endeavour to up my game in the pedantically correct stakes in future :-). ^ You know what, I did 'dive' on you a bit for that. Sorry old chap. No need - you had me bang to rights. Being wrong is always difficult to face up to, so getting in some (more!) practice is never a bad thing. Most British argument ever. 1
sted Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Most British argument ever. isn't the top one ripped straight from futurma about the central burocracy? as to we allow it to happen by voting/not when all 3 main parties sound and act pretty much the same does it matter who you vote for/if you vote unless by some miracle the green party or ukip become the dominant power not much will change (not saying ukip wining is a good thing its not but I suspect it would cause changes and they are the most likely outide the main 2/3 to do so)
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 as to we allow it to happen by voting/not when all 3 main parties sound and act pretty much the same does it matter who you vote for/if you vote unless by some miracle the green party or ukip become the dominant power not much will change (not saying ukip wining is a good thing its not but I suspect it would cause changes and they are the most likely outide the main 2/3 to do so) I didn't say we change it by voting, but that we as voters bear responsibility. Generally I think voters are more effective driving change by activism rather than actually casting a vote at the ballot. When you vote you get to choose from the menu, when you march, agitate, write letters or even just argue the politics, that's when you can change what is cooked up to go on the menu.
mthomas08 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Sorry, what? That makes no sense at all. MPs use computers to contact constituents, they are now going to be using them to review laws electronically rather than on paper. To think they only "debate" is nonsensical to say the least. Think your missing my point. Okay - They don't need iPad 2 Airs when they had already been given previous models.
jumpinjamez Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I think they have been watching House of Cards and seeing all the Americans with fancy Apple placed products.
mthomas08 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I think they have been watching House of Cards and seeing all the Americans with fancy Apple placed products. This is essentially my point. At a time when the Government is telling us we are now in recovery and no longer crises mode it doesn't look good when straight away they want this. Either they spent 5 minutes saying they want this or they have wanted this for months and I don't know whats worse. Shame people take things out of context.
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