School play pictures on Facebook

[jmak]

Advice please

 

We have found out that some parents have posted videos and photos of our school play on Facebook and some have images of several children. Do you have a blanket ban on any photos taken of school events being posted on social media, or do you allow posting where the picture posted only includes an image of the child of the person posting?

 

I am planning to put both child protection and data protection cases in my letter to parents. Would it be accurate to say that the data protection act prohibits posting images of other people on line without their consent? And that the rights to images posted on Facebook pass to Facebook when you post and that you don't have consent to transfer that right on behalf of other people. (I'm aware that for our infant aged kids, all of these rights and permissions are operated by the parents on behalf of the child.)

 

And do any of you do anything about policing it?

 

Thanks in advance.

[elsiegee40]

Callling @GrumbleDook

[jmak]

Callling @GrumbleDook

 

The very two people I was hoping would answer my call

 

Although everyone else's help welcome too!

Edited December 12, 2014 by jmak

[plexer]

https://ico.org.uk/for_organisations/sector_guides/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Practical_application/TAKING_PHOTOS_V3.ashx

 

Ben

[IrritableTech]

For students performing in a school play there is a reasonable expectation that the student will be performing in front of the public - surely?

 

This (oldish) document from the ICO explains this a little, but doesn't discuss placing pictures online.

 

https://www.npted.org/section/1419/Policies%20and%20Procedures/data_protection_myths_and_realities.pdf

 

If your school is uncomfortable with the images, I wouldn't quote any legislation to start with. Ask respectfully that they remove the images and point them to the school website where official images reside.

Edited December 12, 2014 by IrritableTech

[plexer]

"The law talks about 'domestic purposes' - this would include taking pictures for your own use and for that of family and close friends.

 

"But when it comes to Facebook and other social networking sites, where it is very much more public, that's where you would need consent from the parents of kids in the photos."

 

Taken from BBC News - When can't you take photos of a nativity play?

 

I guess it's because you can't be sure of everyone privacy settings on FB.

 

Ben

[jmak]

The issue isn't the taking of photos - I've briefed school before that taking photos for personal use is fine and we encourage parents to do that - partly because we want to dispel some of the myths and encourage the idea that we should teach safe use of technology, not ban it. However, I think it's quite different to post pictures of other people's kids on Facebook etc

 

The ICO documents don't seem to mention social media...

[plexer]

They're still used for personal use if put on facebook though.

 

Ben

[Ric_]

I would agree with @jmak that you shouldn't be forbidding parents from taking photos. You should be educating them in the responsible use of those photos rather than re-enforcing the myth that anybody that takes a photograph, no matter how innocent, could be a potential sex pest.

 

It's a bit late for this particular instance but a better solution may have been an announcement prior to the play, where you could say that some parents or children may not want you to share photographs of them online and that they should only post photographs of their own children if possible.

[jmak]

I would agree with @jmak that you shouldn't be forbidding parents from taking photos. You should be educating them in the responsible use of those photos rather than re-enforcing the myth that anybody that takes a photograph, no matter how innocent, could be a potential sex pest.

 

It's a bit late for this particular instance but a better solution may have been an announcement prior to the play, where you could say that some parents or children may not want you to share photographs of them online and that they should only post photographs of their own children if possible.

 

We did make an announcement essentially saying "please feel free to take photos, but remembered that they are for personal use for you to share with your friends and family. Please do not post them on social media." It didn't work this year.

[Ric_]

@jmak Next year you will have to make a sign... "No photos... you've only got yourselves to blame!"

[plexer]

School nativity today where my youngest was Mary the school banned photo's from being taken during the performance and then allowed time at the end for photo's to be taken

 

Ben

[GrumbleDook]

What can you do if already being shared online? Very little unless you had a policy in place stating what you can and can't do. There are some good example policies put there and they do mention social media (will dig out over the weekend), but as far as the ICO is concerned there is personal use (for sharing between you and your family friends) and official use. If the parent is sharing via a system where you are subject to T&Cs where you may not have complete ownership or the full expectation of control then there are possible ... Which is why most policies will state that the pictures / videos are for personal use and not to be shared via social media, e.g. By uploading to Facebook or via Twitter. Most of the social networks will state that you own the media, but they have rights to process and do certain things with it ... Including things outside of your control.

 

A photo set as a profile picture or cover photo is *always* public ... and so no longer 'personal'

 

There's no legal reason for a school to enforce a ban in a school due to DPA on its own (I.e. Considering the photo as an item of personal information on its own merits), but the school may have a high proportion of children that are looked after, or formerly looked after, and the management of the risk on this is too high for a school to reasonably manage or for parents to be reasonably expected to follow specific instructions (e.g. Before sharing always blur out faces of other children, make sure you zoom in to your child's face only, etc)... and so the school's duty of care says it has to set restrictions on what can be done. That may mean a ban. A risk assessment should have taken place about this before the decision was made.

 

If the ticket purchased for the event said no photos, then they are in breach of contract but you get into legal stickiness at this point and the lawyers come in to earn a pretty penny and start stating about how large and clear signs were needed, etc.

 

If the performance has copyright implications then there is that to considered ... But again see the above about legal murkiness!

 

If the photos contain a child where there is a clear court order in place then it can be reported to FB and removed as per their policies of following court instructions and UK Safer Internet Centre are good folk to talk with about this.

 

Some schools do the public shaming route where they announce a full scale review of the policy of allowing photos due to persistent issues related to where and how they are shared ... getting the PTA involved at that point can be handy as *they* can be the tool of righteous indignation instead of you / the Head / etc.

That sometimes gets the offending parents to back down.

 

Running eSafety sessions for parents to educate rather than rap on the knuckles is also good for changing things around.

 

Sorry if it is not the cast iron answer you were hoping for, but hopefully it gives something to work on for the future.

[GrumbleDook]

They're still used for personal use if put on facebook though.

 

Ben

 

No they are not. You are handing over control to an organisation that may process them for things other than just sharing with personal connections. FB don't argue ownership, but they do say they will process *a lot* of information you provide including photos and meta-data.

[jmak]

No they are not. You are handing over control to an organisation that may process them for things other than just sharing with personal connections. FB don't argue ownership, but they do say they will process *a lot* of information you provide including photos and meta-data.

 

This is completely my point. My desired outcome is:

 

1) Parents can take take photos/videos to cherish memories and share with family who can't be there.

2) leave the choice over whether to give rights over that image/data to corporate machines or share with unknown masses to the legal guardian s of the individual children.

3) ensure the school covers off its child protection duties.

 

When we remind them of our policy (they have already been told what it is) I think the message will be stronger if we explain our reasons. I want to make sure that what I write doesn't contain exaggerated claims. I also don't want to set something up that's impossible to police. Hence the query about whether you tell parents they can upload photos or their own child or whether you have a policy of a total ban.

 

The stick is the threat to ban all cameras from all future school events, but I really don't want to do that.

Edited December 13, 2014 by jmak

[plexer]

No they are not. You are handing over control to an organisation that may process them for things other than just sharing with personal connections. FB don't argue ownership, but they do say they will process *a lot* of information you provide including photos and meta-data.

 

Please provide clarification and source on what facebook will do with my pictures.

[GrumbleDook]

Please provide clarification and source on what facebook will do with my pictures.

 

https://m.facebook.com/policy?page=info talks about how it uses information you share as well as other information it collects.

[plexer]

Can't see anything there that says your photos are no longer your personal property or that facebook will use them in a way other than what you allow.

[Arthur]

https://tosdr.org/#facebook

 

Very broad copyright license on your content

The copyright license that you grant to Facebook goes beyond the requirements for operating the service. For instance, it includes the right for Facebook to transfer the license or to license it others on their terms (“sublicense”). Also, the copyright license does not end when you stop using the service unless your content has been deleted by everyone else.

 

Facebook automatically shares your data with many other services

Facebook automatically shares your information with Bing, Pandora, TripAdvisor, Yelp, Rotten Tomatoes, Clicker, Scribd, and Docs, unless you manually opt-out.

[elsiegee40]

Grumbledook is right about the photos. Their policy has always been that photos on there are in the public domain. I quote the bit on my facebook privacy settings document if someone not on a phone can find it

[plexer]

According to the FB TOS:

 

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, such as photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide licence to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP Licence). This IP Licence ends when you delete your IP content or your account, unless your content has been shared with others and they have not deleted it.

 

What does that mean then?

 

Ben

 

(bold added by me)

[GrumbleDook]

Can't see anything there that says your photos are no longer your personal property or that facebook will use them in a way other than what you allow.

 

From the page I linked to.

We use the information we receive about you in connection with the services and features we provide to you and other users like your friends, our partners, the advertisers that purchase ads on the site, and the developers that build the games, applications, and websites you use. For example, in addition to helping people see and find things that you do and share, we may use the information we receive about you:

 

• as part of our efforts to keep Facebook products, services and integrations safe and secure;
  
• to protect Facebook's or others' rights or property;
  
• to provide you with location features and services, like telling you and your friends when something is going on nearby;
  
• to measure or understand the effectiveness of ads you and others see, including to deliver relevant ads to you;
  
• to make suggestions to you and other users on Facebook, such as: suggesting that your friend use our contact importer because you found friends using it, suggesting that another user add you as a friend because the user imported the same email address as you did, or suggesting that your friend tag you in a picture they have uploaded with you in it; and
  
• for internal operations, including troubleshooting, data analysis, testing, research and service improvement.
  

 

 

Granting us permission to use your information not only allows us to provide Facebook as it exists today, but it also allows us to provide you with innovative features and services we develop in the future that use the information we receive about you in new ways.

 

While you are allowing us to use the information we receive about you, you always own all of your information. Your trust is important to us, which is why we don't share information we receive about you with others unless we have:

 

• received your permission;
  
• given you notice, such as by telling you about it in this policy; or
  
• removed your name and any other personally identifying information from it.
  

 

 

Of course, for information others share about you, they control how it is shared.

We store data for as long as it is necessary to provide products and services to you and others, including those described above. Typically, information associated with your account will be kept until your account is deleted. For certain categories of data, we may also tell you about specific data retention practices.

 

We may enable access to public information that has been shared through our services.

We may allow service providers to access information so they can help us provide services.

We are able to suggest that your friend tag you in a picture by scanning and comparing your friend's pictures to information we've put together from your profile pictures and the other photos in which you've been tagged. If this feature is enabled for you, you can control whether we suggest that another user tag you in a photo using the “Timeline and Tagging” settings. Learn more.

 

FB are clear that you own the information (including photos) unless you give FB to share with others then they won't, however they will process it themselves so they can offer you services, push adverts, etc.

 

You are allowing a 3rd party process information for the purpose of pushing services to you.

 

Remember that the ICO example is of personal use being a family photo album.

 

Please point out where the use of the information by 3rd parties to push services to you is counted as personal use? You are also allowing the information of others (I.e. Other children in the photo) to be processed too.

[GrumbleDook]

@jmak another option is to ban parent photos but have an official photographer, who can take individual pics or can blur out those others in group pics when they are ordered. It makes it expensive to order photos and you need a good photographer (or team) who has experience to make the most of it. A small profit from photos can also be made to put into the PTA funds too, including use of a hardship fund for parents who cannot afford things.

 

That way, you are allowing access to photos but still protecting things

[rdk]

I think society is at the stage where you can safely assume that if you are appearing in any sort of public performance you can expect that photos will appear on social media, and we are past the stage where you could expect to stop it. If you act as if you can stop it then you can sometimes expect parents to be upset with you when you can't.

 

A school play is by definition public - ie the audience will have more than staff and students present. I would assume that very few schools would even restrict tickets to family, so there will always be friends, step parents, step de-facto parents etc. If a child's image is so precious that a photo of a scene from a play with him or her in it would be so damaging then it is up to the parents to ensure that their child does not take part in such events, and their offspring's artistic talents are restricted to drama class at school.

 

If you feel strongly that I am wrong you have only one option - ban photography and enforce the ban. With enough manpower and will power you probably could. Otherwise photos *will* appear on FB.

[ZeroHour]

From the page I linked to.

 

 

FB are clear that you own the information (including photos) unless you give FB to share with others then they won't, however they will process it themselves so they can offer you services, push adverts, etc.

 

You are allowing a 3rd party process information for the purpose of pushing services to you.

 

Remember that the ICO example is of personal use being a family photo album.

 

Please point out where the use of the information by 3rd parties to push services to you is counted as personal use? You are also allowing the information of others (I.e. Other children in the photo) to be processed too.

 

How does Gmail fit in with this? they push ads based on the context of your email and content so if you emailed the pictures/videos to other family members wouldn't they process it the same way as facebook?