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Wireless Networks Thread, Wireless Costs in Technical; Weare basically doing the same thing, ditching a HP network and getting test kit in from all the suppliers above ...
  1. #16
    old_n07's Avatar
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    Weare basically doing the same thing, ditching a HP network and getting test kit in from all the suppliers above over the next few weeks. From the meetings we have had so far the Aerohive kit impressed us the most but we'll see what happens when we test the AP's provided.

    We are looking at 100 to 120 AP's and the prices you are talking about seem about right for 90 or so.

    Strangely enough the Meru rep cancelled on us today apparently he didn't want to come in and sell us the solution
    Last edited by old_n07; 26th June 2012 at 08:50 PM.

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    Well Ruckus so far have managed to price themselves out of the running by being double the cost of everyone else

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    Ruckus was cheaper than Meru when we were getting quotes, Siracom were also a pain in the arse to get demo kit from in the way we wanted, when we wanted it (sorry @Millgate ).

    If you want something scaleable that will last, dont bother looking at Netgear.

    We just purchased a Ruckus system with 33 AP's and a 3000 series ZD, 3 years reseller support on the ZD and 3 year software support on the WAP's, installation and configuration for under 20k. This system is hugely scalable in the future and will give us 100% site coverage.

    Am happy to put you in touch with who we purchased from if you are interested in getting some alternative quotes, just drop me a message

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    @RTFM what Ruckus AP's did you go for??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    @RTFM what Ruckus AP's did you go for??

    Hi @Mustang, AP is the ZF 7363 and the ZD is the ZD3050

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    Speak to Mark or Aggy at Net-Ctrl. I am surprised you found Ruckus more expensive, it was cheaper than Meru and HP for me.

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    Aggy (31st July 2012)

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    One thing I would say is that you probably wouldn't need anywhere near 75-80 AP's with the Ruckus kit. We are a large site and our survey showed we only needed 28, although due to finances we could only buy 7 to cover main areas and we actually find those 7 cover about 70% of the school!

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    We got our Ruckus from @CPLTD it's dead easy to set up and Chris and Mark from CP were great price wise.

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    CPLTD (16th October 2012)

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    Wes
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    I've been doing working with Meraki Recently and the cloud controller is very powerful and customizable - more powerful then a lot of other makes I've used like HP, Cisco and Aerohive.
    This can't be said of Aerohive as they do not have a controller, they use a shared set protocols to distribute data and control planes across the APs at the egde of the network. The access points each have a processor which is more than adequate to deal with anything the AP chooses to demand of it. Essentially with any shared control plane (i.e. a controller, cloud or otherwise) you're diluting a pre-determined amount of processing power which is dependent on processing data sent to it in this case via an internet connection rather than having a dedicated processor on each AP, dealing with data processing and forwarding at the edge of the network. HiveManager is available as either a VM or cloud service and plays no part in the data processing. It's a pure management tool and in my opinion offers many more useful tools than the Meraki's, fairly limited, features. The most useful being the Client Health Monitor (instant look up of all clients WiFi, network and application health), Teacherview (built in classroom control software) and the stateful firewall built into every access point which can be leveraged in to allow or deny access to private or public addresses as required for each user group without or tied into wired network VLANs.

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    Wes
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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    One thing I would say is that you probably wouldn't need anywhere near 75-80 AP's with the Ruckus kit. We are a large site and our survey showed we only needed 28, although due to finances we could only buy 7 to cover main areas and we actually find those 7 cover about 70% of the school!
    Coverage is the easy part - having the capacity to connect large numbers of users with a decent throughput is another challenge. Coverage wise, all APs are limited by law on their power output, physics being the other limiting factor for coverage. I would suggest this many APs have been reccomended as the school has a capacity requirement rather than purely looking for coverage? If this is the case a lot of times you will need an AP per classroom to connect 30-35 concurrent users with a decent throughput for each. The best WLANs will have automated load balancing and band steering as well as some sort of airtime fairness technique in use (such as Aerohive's Dynamic Airtime Scheduling) to ensure that high capacity WLANs are optimized towards actual user experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    This can't be said of Aerohive as they do not have a controller, they use a shared set protocols to distribute data and control planes across the APs at the egde of the network. The access points each have a processor which is more than adequate to deal with anything the AP chooses to demand of it. Essentially with any shared control plane (i.e. a controller, cloud or otherwise) you're diluting a pre-determined amount of processing power which is dependent on processing data sent to it in this case via an internet connection rather than having a dedicated processor on each AP, dealing with data processing and forwarding at the edge of the network. HiveManager is available as either a VM or cloud service and plays no part in the data processing. It's a pure management tool and in my opinion offers many more useful tools than the Meraki's, fairly limited, features. The most useful being the Client Health Monitor (instant look up of all clients WiFi, network and application health), Teacherview (built in classroom control software) and the stateful firewall built into every access point which can be leveraged in to allow or deny access to private or public addresses as required for each user group without or tied into wired network VLANs.
    In the classroom environment from what I have seen of Aerohive the classroom control software is something Meraki don't have granted. When I mentioned controller I meant the management features overall as I know Aerohive doesn't have a controller - its chalk and cheese at the end of the day!

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    I would look at Xirrus....for a start you will not 75 APs for this solution (I will take a guess and say 25)...get a survey from them to find out... Xirrus will do it for free and guarantee the coverage based on these results...
    I know the others are reluctant to provide a free survey..but my view is they need to (remember that yes you are one school.....but you have many contacts with other schools and potential customers for them.)
    Xirrus pricing is about $3900 AUD for the XR 2430 AUD and $1600 for the XR1230 AUD. These have dual band and can serve 240 (4 radios) to 120 (2 radios) respectively (although Xirrus will tell you more).

    Also, you will need to look at your core network and edge switches to make sure they are capable of handling the overall throughput placed on them from addtional devices (not just wireless).


    I would challenge the comment about nightmares with Xirrus.....but oh well.....

    From my experience the nightmares occur when you have not properly designed all aspects of the solution first (core and edge redesign as well).....and not doing a survey to get an idea of actual coverage and potential blackspots is a fatal flaw here.......

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    We have Juniper - Looking at finance records the total including all the cabling costs and support was around 35K - 40K for 60 access points. Not the most friendly interface but I inherited the system. It does the job though.

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