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Wireless Networks Thread, Edugeek, I need your help! Netgear solution issues in Technical; A third party company who I won't name but for the sake of this thread we will call them Wireless ...
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    johnymac's Avatar
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    Edugeek, I need your help! Netgear solution issues

    A third party company who I won't name but for the sake of this thread we will call them Wireless Installs Ltd provided a school a wireless solution.

    3 Quotes were provided. A meru, a Cisco and a Netgear solution. The Netgear solution was the cheapest and the school were promised a working wireless solution so they went for it (after consulting with the governors).

    Wireless Installs Ltd installed the Netgear wireless solution, this consisted of:
    7x WNDAP350 all wired back to 1 x GS724TP, with a single WMS5316 connected.

    The problems were obvious straight away:
    Problem 1) We noticed 5% loss of packets even when only one device (netbook) was connected. This problem exists across all wireless devices, I tried various laptops & netbooks.

    Problem 2) The wireless solution wont allow devices to connect/reconnect until after an X amount of time after boot up, usually ~40 seconds. This meant that the devices received "unable to connect to the domain" when trying to log in. We dropped a device off the domain and it was evident that the wireless point was not allowing the device to reconnect. Again I ran these tests on various different wireless devices.

    To prove that it was the wireless solution at fault we connected a single Cisco WAP and disconnected the Netgear solution. Everything worked 100% perfect, no packet loss (maybe 1 packet in 1000). We monitored everything and created a nice graph showing that the Netgear solution wasn't performing as expected.

    I then took this evidence to Wireless Installs Ltd and asked them to resolve these issues.

    Wireless installs Ltd updated the firmware in the WAPs but this didn't make any difference. They acknowledge there is a fault but contest my claim that the solution isn't fit for purpose.

    Is it possible the wireless solution is fit for purpose and I'm being too demanding as a customer? Anyone any experience of dealing with a similar problem?

    I'm not biased to any company/brand/supplier of Wireless.

    I am a third party trying to resolve this because the school have no skill/experience. Should I step back? Should I invoice the school for my time or the company that provided the Wireless?

    Thanks everyone.. Sorry for the long thread!

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    Plain and simple the solution isn't working and is therefore in it's current capacity unfit for purpose.

    During the project sign off was testing completed etc to show it all working? Did anyone sign off on this?

    It depends what capacity you've been brought in as but if you are a technical consultant working with the school on increasing their IT capability then you should in conjunction with them ask Wireless Installs Ltd to come to site and see the solution not working and ask them why. If they acknowledge the fault they should be fixing it as you paid them for the kit not Netgear, not anyone else. If still no joy money back and try again elsewhere. (Net Ctrl & CP Ltd forum sponsors on here are known solid providers of this stuff)

    As for your invoicing I'd still invoice the school because you're not directly Wireless Installs Ltd customer but the school could argue that due to Wireless Installs Ltd's inability to effectively troubleshoot the solution they have had to bring in an external consultant to work with them which has naturally cost them money. As for whether they get any back from them for that I don't know though.

  3. Thanks to kmount from:

    Aggy (1st February 2011)

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    Few things to try first

    Do a traceroute back to your server, check where it drops, because it may not be the APs but the switch? I have seen that a few times in my time!
    Have you run InSSIDer to check the strength of the APs and made sure there is no crossover on the channels?
    How long have you had the issue and did it work with any demo kit? (did you even get demo kit?)

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    My role is as an ICT consultant however I work for the company that provides the school with Technical suport. Initially the technical configuration of all of the devices in the school was questioned by Wireless Installs Ltd and the school so that is where I came into play. So far I have invested about 20 hours into this to:

    a) Prove where the fault originated from
    b) Provide a working solution to show that wireless does work
    c) Dispute the "fit for purpose"-ness with Wireless Installs Ltd
    d) Provide evidence of the fault occurring.

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    Would you mind posting up an "edited" version of your report thus far so we can go through and see where you may have missed anything?

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    I don't have the evidence to hand. The most obvious evidence was a graph of ping responses showing the time outs, I can probably dig it out if you *really* need it.

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    Open and shut case then really, the report goes to the school who sends it to Wireless Installs Ltd for them to come in and disprove their install is at fault but if they have admitted fault it's pretty much open and shut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnymac View Post
    I don't have the evidence to hand. The most obvious evidence was a graph of ping responses showing the time outs, I can probably dig it out if you *really* need it.
    One would assume connecting a device hard wired into the switch the APs go back to shows no packet loss to the rest of the school?

    With that in mind, a different AP connected into this switch then is used to show no packet loss either?

    And an AP of theirs connected to the switch does?

    Simples.

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    ok, well I have sent you a PM, be sure to read it.

    I also had a thought about the installation, was it substandard (wiring I mean), how far apart are the APs from the switch, because if it is more than 100m from the switch you will have issues on a big scale. The longer the cable, the more the signal degradation.

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    Gah I thought I replied to this already...
    a) Traceroute is fine when using cisco point (point plugged into same location as where Netgear WAP was)
    b) I personally haven't however my employee has. Network Installs Ltd did admit to not scanning the building first, after we discovered the fault they ran a wireless scan and tried to blame a rogue wireless access point in a neighbours house transmitting at a high power output. My colleagues did the maths on the strength of the signal being output and came to the conclusion their monitoring tool must have been inferior as it would of taken several kw of energy to output such a large signal (however I don't have the evidence with me to back this up.
    c) The install was completed in Summer and 2 weeks later when we tried to join devices we noticed the fault. This was instantly raised with Network Installs Ltd. The school were promised a working solution by Friday the 21st of Jan. No demo kit was provided.

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    Wiring looks fine. All wiring is fine w/ cisco WAP. Small school, APs are in range of POE injection and Cisco switch performs fine in all locations.

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    are the APs running POE??? because to my knowledge the GS724T doesnt support it (I gave my one to Dos_box so I am now unable to test that theory but I could never get it working!)

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    Okay I have invited the MD of Network Installs Ltd to read this thread and check to make sure everything I have posted is factual.

    It is worth saying the Network Installs Ltd have been happy to come out to look at this problem and aren't putting their head in the sand so there is no complaints, negativity or resentment. All parties involved want to isolate this problem to something simple so we can get the wireless working in the school and move on to something less frustrating

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    Hopefully together you will resolve the issue regardless of where it lies.

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    Shame you are in bradford, I would love to take a proper look! Just one last question, why was no demo done?? The company that did the install should have done a demo to see how much coverage an AP would get, and to see how the signal ratios are!

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