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Wireless Networks Thread, A Nightmare on networking street? in Technical; Ok, so some of this may be attributed to the migrane that came up just after I discovered how much ...
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    A Nightmare on networking street?

    Ok, so some of this may be attributed to the migrane that came up just after I discovered how much of a hell I'm going to go through soon, but here goes...

    Due to some wonderful government money, my primary school is due for a major network update.

    The whole physical cabling and switch infrastructure is being upgraded and replaced. This I am happy with, though question wheither it's really necessary, I'm not going to argue about it.

    The FUN begins in stage 2 of the project, where it's been decided by some other company who was paid far too much money, that we need to replace our Admin server, and integrate the admin and curriculum network. They will supply us with a sparkly new dell server, and pay a dell engineer to take it out the box, and plug a network cable into it.... Then leave. It will not even have an OS installed on it.

    They are then leaving it down to the individual school, aka, just me, to acquire an OS for it, install it and configure it, then rebuild my entire network to integrate the curriculum and admin networks into a single domain. On top of that, the existing curriculum network runs on winsuite and server 2003, and I now have a number of Windows 7 laptops appearing, which do sort of work on the network, but management of them isn't as good as it should be.


    What I'd like to know from someone here, is how long it would be estimated to take, to:

    -Setup a new domain on a new server, building all new GPO's from scratch
    -Migrate existing system, including all users from 2 seperate domains to the new domain
    -recommission the old server(s) as member servers for the purpose of running Print server, AV server etc
    -rebuild the existing curriculum network pc's, approximately 50-60 of them to the new domain (rebuild required as not done in a while, as well as being based on winsuite currently)

    There is just the one of me, though I may be able to acquire another technician for a few days to assist with the manpower intensive tasks, such as rebuilding... Assume can rebuild 20 PC's per day.

    No DHCP/ real network config required, network being installed is a managed network.

    I'm not looking for an in-depth breakdown on it, just a wheither it should take a week, a month, or about 12 years....

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    Last time we changed our Admin Server, I got the LEA guys in. Between 3 of us, we pretty well did it in a morning.

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    Why no DHCP? It's save at least a days work. Admittedly, if you wanted managed computers you would need to input MAC\GUID manually, but static IP's are sooo early 90's!

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    I would estimate around 11 working days for the work you've described provided your confident and have a full plan in place for the config, I know you didn't want a break down but I find it easier to estimate by breaking it down so thought I'd share

    -Setup a new domain on a new server, building all new GPO's from scratch -- 3 days

    -Migrate existing system, including all users from 2 seperate domains to the new domain -- 2-3 days depending on data volume

    -recommission the old server(s) as member servers for the purpose of running Print server, AV server etc - 1-2 days

    -rebuild the existing curriculum network pc's, approximately 50-60 of them to the new domain (rebuild required as not done in a while, as well as being based on winsuite currently) - 2-4 days depending on size of image to be deployed, 1 day building, half day testing followed by the rest deploying. This is assuming that you won't need to spend half-1 full day copying files from cd's to a server etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    -Setup a new domain on a new server, building all new GPO's from scratch
    -Migrate existing system, including all users from 2 seperate domains to the new domain
    -recommission the old server(s) as member servers for the purpose of running Print server, AV server etc
    -rebuild the existing curriculum network pc's, approximately 50-60 of them to the new domain (rebuild required as not done in a while, as well as being based on winsuite currently)
    I did pretty much all of the above single handedly in roughly a week, this included physically getting them into the rack and a majority of the testing although of course this went on for the subsequent weeks as we discovered new security flaws or tested bits of the system properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    There is just the one of me, though I may be able to acquire another technician for a few days to assist with the manpower intensive tasks, such as rebuilding... Assume can rebuild 20 PC's per day.
    No offence, but a with a decent imaging system and you should be able to do a lot more than 20 a day. We imaged all 600 of our machines in about 7-8 days here last summer and a majority of them are laptops, so that includes getting them out, cleaning them, fixing them, imaging them, labelling them and putting them away - there were 3 of us doing this however.


    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    I'm not looking for an in-depth breakdown on it, just a wheither it should take a week, a month, or about 12 years....
    The server side of things, providing you are un-interrupted and know exactly what you need to do and the order you need to do it in should take no longer than a week I wouldn't have thought, but it all depends how much data there is and whether you run into problems along the way, so I would allow 6-7 full days for this.

    Client PC's it may take 1 day to build your perfect image and test it, then maybe a further 2-3 days to image the PCs you have, but that depends on how many different types of PCs you've got around the building and how you image them. If you're building them all from CD's it's going to take a lot longer, if you're using an imaging system like FOG, then it's obviously a lot quicker.

    If I were doing it, I would allow 2 full weeks minimum, plus a further week when the system will be useable, but you might be ironing out the bugs still.

    Mike.

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    I have 2 different types of curriculum pc at this time, and about 12 different staff laptops; I'm less worried about these, as 60-70% of the staff laptops i inherited as standalone laptops rather than domain controlled, so it's easier to leave those till the new network goes in as they are, and just add them to the domain manually.

    I spec 20 machines a day, expecting it to take about 4-5 hours for a full build, when all the images are held on a single NAS, running over the network. Any more than 20 in a day, and the impact on the NAS will probably cause it to go slower. It also means if I mess something up, i haven't got to do it all again, only a smaller batch.

    no DHCP to configure etc, cos my network does it all for me. All I have to do is setup the server(s), the ip's are assigned by the network according to what port they are plugged into.

    Userdata is 70-80% stored on the NAS, so not a lot of data to transfer, just the accounts to migrate, or if that proves too messy, to remake them.

    I had thought about building the new domain, and then testing images/profiles before migration, meaning the existing network can run until i am happy the new one is ready, and then just do the migration from there.

    Is this possible, or would it be greatly quicker/easier to just go nuclear and do it all from scratch together?

    It would certainly be quicker/easier in respect to the member servers. Migrating the SIMS admin could be a royal pain in the arse though.

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    AIT
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    -Setup a new domain on a new server, building all new GPO's from scratch - 4 Hours if you know what you are doing-Migrate existing system, including all users from 2 seperate domains to the new domain
    -recommission the old server(s) as member servers for the purpose of running Print server, AV server etc - would recommend a totall rebuild of old server 3 hours
    -rebuild the existing curriculum network pc's, approximately 50-60 of them to the new domain (rebuild required as not done in a while, as well as being based on winsuite currently) - rebuild one 2 hours install all software and image the rest. however long takes to iamge usually 20 mins per machine

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    I spec 20 machines a day, expecting it to take about 4-5 hours for a full build, when all the images are held on a single NAS, running over the network. Any more than 20 in a day, and the impact on the NAS will probably cause it to go slower. It also means if I mess something up, i haven't got to do it all again, only a smaller batch.
    4-5 hours for a full build What are you using to image the machines with, as I can copy down a 5GB image to a workstation using FOG in about 5 minutes flat depending on the machine.

    Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    4-5 hours for a full build What are you using to image the machines with, as I can copy down a 5GB image to a workstation using FOG in about 5 minutes flat depending on the machine.

    Mike.
    full rebuild put the disc in and install xp!! and all software.

    as we use an incredible amount of adobe packages office etc etc etc the image is 45gb so the initial creation of the image (by that i dont mean taking the image) does take about 4-5 hours!

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    Sorry, but I do not know what computers/servers or team size your working with, but I want it!
    It takes about 40 minutes to an hour to install a basic Windows OS with no config or setup, somehow I think it will take longer than that to build a new Domain server, and if I knew fully what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking on here about it!

    Also to note, that since we're a SCHOOL we will need to migrate the admin packages (SIMS and SCO at least) to a new server, which is not doable in 4 hours, it will probably take that long just to copy over the databases.
    Same again with reconfiguring the AV suite (Kaspersky BusinessSpace Security, administration server).

    Also 20 minutes per machine is 3 per hour, which equals 20 per day.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    Sorry, but I do not know what computers/servers or team size your working with, but I want it!
    It takes about 40 minutes to an hour to install a basic Windows OS with no config or setup, somehow I think it will take longer than that to build a new Domain server, and if I knew fully what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking on here about it!

    Also to note, that since we're a SCHOOL we will need to migrate the admin packages (SIMS and SCO at least) to a new server, which is not doable in 4 hours, it will probably take that long just to copy over the databases.
    Same again with reconfiguring the AV suite (Kaspersky BusinessSpace Security, administration server).

    Also 20 minutes per machine is 3 per hour, which equals 20 per day.....
    I still belive 4 hours is plenty to build a new domain server.

    Regarding Moving Data you may be right however surely if you set everything up surely you can copy data last....

    also if you are going to the same os and you are happy with your current server setup have you considered purchasing acronis true image (with universal restore) and simply clone your old server to the new server.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    .

    Also 20 minutes per machine is 3 per hour, which equals 20 per day.....
    Err; no????

    20 minutes per machine is not 3 per hour unless you're only doing them one at a time!

    I know there's a bit where you have to type stuff when the machine is starting and you can probably only type on one keyboard at a time (unless you take your shoes and socks off!) but I would have said that bit takes about 5 minutes so you ought to be able to start about 10 machines per hour and complete 20 in about 2-3 hours.

  13. Thanks to srochford from:

    AIT (3rd February 2010)

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    Your Nightmare

    Hello

    Do you have any say on this project at all? Its just too easy for a company to just dump a new server on you unconfigured.

    At my school which is a large 3 form entry primary school with 160pc's I decide who I have in to do a job such as a new server and I would not choose anyone who could not do the whole project. There is only me working 3 days a week so I simply would not have time to set up the whole network from scratch.

    However I think I may be a rare person in a school as I am called a Network manager not a technician the head likes it that way. She simply gives me and trusts me to have complete control. We save lots of money by having external maintenance support at all, just me to do it all. I call someone in if I need it when there is a big new installation. I also do the cabling using a cabling bloke to help me with the big installations.

    I remember once when I was at another school havuing free network cabling from a free grant managed centrally by the LEA. These so called approved contractors were terrable cowboys, they drilled in the server room which filled the servers with brick dust and trashed both servers! Never again. I now always manage projects myself. Turn down the free grant. You have no control when there is a free grant.

    So can you say no to the server unless the supplier can fully set it up for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfisher View Post
    Sorry, but I do not know what computers/servers or team size your working with, but I want it!
    It takes about 40 minutes to an hour to install a basic Windows OS with no config or setup, somehow I think it will take longer than that to build a new Domain server, and if I knew fully what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking on here about it!

    Also to note, that since we're a SCHOOL we will need to migrate the admin packages (SIMS and SCO at least) to a new server, which is not doable in 4 hours, it will probably take that long just to copy over the databases.
    Same again with reconfiguring the AV suite (Kaspersky BusinessSpace Security, administration server).

    Also 20 minutes per machine is 3 per hour, which equals 20 per day.....
    Building a domain controller is actually not that time consuming. For a start you've got a high spec machine so the install is nice and quick. Run windows updates to get it all up to date, then run DCPROMO and follow through the steps - it does it all for you. You'll probably also need to install DNS services and configure them if you're not running DNS somewhere else already. It actually doesn't take longer than a couple of hours to establish your domain, it's all the fiddly bits like Group polciy configurations that take the time.

    Migrating across SIMS can be tricky. Our SIMS support migrated us across to our new SIMS server in about 3 hours, although of course they've done it many times before - I wasn't going anywhere near it, as me and SIMS don't get on.

    To get ahead of yourself you could do what I did which is to setup a working example of the new domain on a virtual server, and also setup a windows XP machine as another virtual machine so you can create and test the group policies in this environment, then you can back them up from the virtual server and restore them to the active environment in a few minutes.

    Mike.

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    Have you considered leaving one of the domains active? - Most likely the curriculum one as this will have most computers / users in. Set the new server up as a domain controller in this domain, and migrate all the roles over to it.

    Then all you've got to do is move the few admin computers and user accounts to this domain, and move sims etc to the new server (which isn't that hard if you follow thier guidlines) Finally re-build the admin server as a member server. You can then re-build all the client pc's when you have time.

    It wont be quite as clean as starting from scratch, but would mean you can do it slowly a bit at a time.

    Steve



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