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Wireless Networks Thread, Managed 802.11n - anyone using this yet? in Technical; The difference we see even with the more basic Ruckus ZoneFlex 2942 over the likes of the Procurve 420 and ...
  1. #16

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    The difference we see even with the more basic Ruckus ZoneFlex 2942 over the likes of the Procurve 420 and Procurve 530 units we currently have is substantial. If you can afford an 802.11n then go for it you will get even better coverage with units like the Ruckus ZoneFlex 7962 and probably save more money in the long run.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 View Post
    We have a couple of the Dual Channel N ZoneFlex 7962 two of these will do 120 laptops.
    The N speed is 300.00, so thats really only about 75-80MB in real world speeds, so for each client to be given 2MB each you would need three wireless N access points.
    Just out of interested in line with my original question how would ruckus provide 120 11g clients in the same sports hall with 2MB bandwidth without channel interference.

    I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.

    I understand why people are happy with the system it keeps clients connected without any dropouts as it obviously does due to all the positive feedback on here but can it provide bandwidth of atleast 2MB to 11g clients in areas of a school that has over 35 laptops (11g) in a small space.
    54MB is only about 18MB so really only 9 11g clients per access point/channel

    The reason I am asking these questions is to try to have a measurable quality standard to see if this solution can meet this standard, I have noticed from other threads on here that there does not seem to be a accepted defination of what a quality wireless network is, some people on here would probably just be happy if all their clients can log on and save work, while others might want their clients to all be able to use streaming media at once or all be able to use youtube at once.
    I am after information on how ruckus would provide atleat 2MB bandwidth in this situation.
    Some people might think that 2MB per client is not needed but if you don't have a set quality standard of acceptable service then its difficult to judge wether a system is worth buying.

    I'm sure the lads that resell ruckus will do their best to answer this question on this thread without dodging the hard questions.
    Last edited by Jose; 16th July 2009 at 09:56 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #18

    CPLTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose View Post
    The N speed is 300.00, so thats really only about 75-80MB in real world speeds, so for each client to be given 2MB each you would need three wireless N access points.
    Just out of interested in line with my original question how would ruckus provide 120 11g clients in the same sports hall with 2MB bandwidth without channel interference.

    I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.

    I understand why people are happy with the system it keeps clients connected without any dropouts as it obviously does due to all the positive feedback on here but can it provide bandwidth of atleast 2MB to 11g clients in areas of a school that has over 35 laptops (11g) in a small space.
    54MB is only about 18MB so really only 9 11g clients per access point/channel

    The reason I am asking these questions is to try to have a measurable quality standard to see if this solution can meet this standard, I have noticed from other threads on here that there does not seem to be a accepted defination of what a quality wireless network is, some people on here would probably just be happy if all their clients can log on and save work, while others might want their clients to all be able to use streaming media at once or all be able to use youtube at once.
    I am after information on how ruckus would provide atleat 2MB bandwidth in this situation.
    Some people might think that 2MB per client is not needed but if you don't have a set quality standard of acceptable service then its difficult to judge wether a system is worth buying.

    I'm sure the lads that resell ruckus will do their best to answer this question on this thread without dodging the hard questions.
    Tell you what how about we send you an eval unit and you arnswer that question for us,

  4. #19

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Whilst I do not have the N components, I have the ABG components, and believe me the coverage, gain, etc is fine. We had 90 clients connect on 1 AP (we were testing it and it can apparently have 128 clients per AP!!!) and it did the 90 without a problem.

    When we tested a Xirrus, Meru and Cisco system, they started going down at about 30+ clients per AP.

  5. #20
    eean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose
    I am not trying to badmouth ruckus or any other system I'm just trying to establish if any of these systems actually gain/give clients any extra bandwidth/speed.
    Perhaps it would be good idea if a few Ruckus users could post some throughput speeds - there is a way of finding that out in the manager software.

  6. Thanks to eean from:

    Jose (17th July 2009)

  7. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by eean View Post
    Perhaps it would be good idea if a few Ruckus users could post some throughput speeds - there is a way of finding that out in the manager software.

    that would be good thanks, I'm after facts and figures about bandwidth per client, I fully understand that ruckus is good at providing consistant connections without dropouts.

    My understanding of wireless is that the bandwidth is shared between clients so to have 2MB per client on a 54mb (real speed 18mb) network you need 1 access point per 9 clients.
    I suppose my question is can does the Ruckus AP that has 57 clients on it give atleat 2MB per client, I can't see how it can without changing the laws of physics.

  8. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPLTD View Post
    Tell you what how about we send you an eval unit and you arnswer that question for us,
    We are not in position to buy, but I am impressed by peoples opinions on Ruckus and it look a impressive system to provide "site wide" wireless access but what I'm trying to find out is how it handles large amounts of clients while providing 2MB per client bandwidth.
    I KNOW its a quality product at doing what it does but would it do what I want it to do, what is giving atleast 2MB per client.

    Please dazzle with science and explain how one AP with 57 clients provides 2MB to each laptop

  9. #23

    CPLTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose View Post
    We are not in position to buy, but I am impressed by peoples opinions on Ruckus and it look a impressive system to provide "site wide" wireless access but what I'm trying to find out is how it handles large amounts of clients while providing 2MB per client bandwidth.
    I KNOW its a quality product at doing what it does but would it do what I want it to do, what is giving atleast 2MB per client.

    Please dazzle with science and explain how one AP with 57 clients provides 2MB to each laptop
    Hi Jose,

    You will never recieve 2MB per client from any wireless system in the market, by its very nature its shared bandwith for example, In an ideal situation where all clients are recieving maximum signal strenght (hence full throughput) the total ability of the AP will mearly be shared between the total number of clients,
    The benefit of say Ruckus Wireless N would be that you have upto 300 mbps of throughput to play with as apposed to the G standard of 25mbps,

    I hope this helps a little

    Simon

  10. Thanks to CPLTD from:

    Jose (17th July 2009)

  11. #24

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    Its all about better managing the amount of bandwith available, take a look at your network utilization on a normal desktop over the course of the day as i sit here typing this its at 0% unless all your clients are copying across the network and streaming video constantly its not going to be a problem. I mean our internet connection is 10mbps and even with 1200 kids and 500 desktops this rairely gets saturated.
    If i get the opertunity over the summer i will set a number of laptops and install speedflex and get you some figures but i think the only way to satisfy your interest is to get some eval kit and test for yourself.

  12. Thanks to Tallwood_6 from:

    CPLTD (17th July 2009)

  13. #25

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    thanks for the honest reply.

    it seems to me the only way to get large amounts of clients working with atleast 2MB of bandwidth is to use the 5GHZ APs.

    does extricom load balance clients better than ruckus?

  14. #26
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    Hi Guys, thought you mike like some expert advice on this matter:

    In the sports hall there is so much multipath that you really only have 3 effective RF channels, 1, 6, 13 on the 2.4ghz

    With 11g you get a maximum throughput of 20mbps per channel, so you would have 60mbps to play with

    If you had 120 users (max would be 300 in this hall with 3 APs)

    Then you get 60/120 which is about 0.5mbps per student concurrent

    Adding more access points wont help either in both a single cell or multi cell environment due to the close proximity of the APs in the hall.

    If you moved to 11n then you would effectively have 60mbps per channel and that would give you 180mbps per 120 student, so still only 1.5mbps each

    The answer is 5ghz, you can have up to 19 aps on different channels not 3 in 2,4ghz

    Use bandsteering to manipulate the clients in the 5ghz spectrum, then you can provide about 1gbps in the sports hall, which is plenty


    Kind Regards
    Stuart White
    Last edited by White_Fi; 17th July 2009 at 04:27 PM.

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    However a glimmer of light as I presume you don’t want to upgrade 120 laptops yet, is if the clients you have can also support 11a, which runs in the 5ghz range which is called abg typically

    You could then use 10 aps x 7962 (dual 11n abgn APs) to get this bandwidth required of 10x20mbps on 11a plus 3 x 20mbps on the 11g, which would then scale up to over 750mbps as the clients move to 11n in the future

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuartWhite View Post
    However a glimmer of light as I presume you donít want to upgrade 120 laptops yet, is if the clients you have can also support 11a, which runs in the 5ghz range which is called abg typically

    You could then use 10 aps x 7962 (dual 11n abgn APs) to get this bandwidth required of 10x20mbps on 11a plus 3 x 20mbps on the 11g, which would then scale up to over 750mbps as the clients move to 11n in the future

    We have only recently sorted our classroom wireless out, we have 100 staff laptops that only support 11g, 3 x 18 ict laptops = 54 laptops 11abg, 5 x 18 science laptops = 54 laptops 11g + 18 11a +18 11n
    36 eng/hum laptops 11g, 28 dt laptops 11g, 18 maths laptops 11abg , 36 mfl laptops 18 11g + 18 11abg plus a few extra around the place.

    362 classroom laptops

    126 support 5GHZ,
    236 support 2.4GHZ

    we have recently come to the conclusion that the way forward is with the 5GHZ APs
    thanks for your help Stuart.

    we purchased ten of these netgear WNHDE111 last month, they are N 5GHZ APs that also support 11a, they have 6 antennas and don't slow down N clients while supporting 11a clients at the same time.
    we have it worked out that 2 APs per 18 laptops gives us a high quality service.
    This involves making sure each room used for laptops can see 2 APs.

  17. #29
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    I'm trying to figure out how clever these things actually are.

    Let’s say, hypothetically, I had 10 access points all in the same room. Would it put 3 APs on the n (2.4ghz + 5ghz) bands, using up the 3 channels in the 2.4. Then the remaining 7 on the A (5 ghz bands). Then, would it put more clients on the full n APs then fewer on a.
    Or, would it try and stick them all on n, causing loads of interference on the 2.4ghz band? Then distribute the clients evenly.
    Would it do this automatically or would this have to be configured manually.
    I’m thinking of, perhaps, providing blanket coverage in all areas. Then having mobile access points to add more bands for when laptops are used as sets. This might mean that if one year group were all using laptops simultaneously, there might be a 5+ APs in fairly close proximity.

    If it was forced into a situation where there was channel interference (say 5 2.4ghz APs in range), would it use it's directional antenna system to make it so the signals don't interfere.

  18. #30

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    is it possible to get thes ruckus APs to use 5ghz wireless N only, ie don't use 2.4 at all when using N clients that have 5ghz wifi cards ?.

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